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Old 06-11-2009, 07:00 PM   #101
johnnybear
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I think Dr.Darwin King and Juliet Mackie were the same(Dragon's Domain) but Cellini was Jim Calder and Monique Bouchere was Olga Vishinska(these names were probably in the original script)...
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:13 PM   #102
David A. Sobral
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I think I have all the Space:1999 original print British novels. The only English language one I don't have is The Edge of the Infinite, but I remember there used to be a fair few used book stores in Glasgow that were a gold mine for this sort of thing, and that's where I picked mine up in. One difference I remember in one pook was the novelisation Dragons Domain had the pilot named as Captain Jim Calder rather than Tony Cellini, and in fact the rest of the Ultra Probe crew were named differently.
On a similar note, in the adaptaion of "Troubled Spirit" (in "#5: Lunar Attack"?), Mateo starts out as "Paul" then a few pages later, he is "Dan". The editor musta been asleep at the switch on that one...
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Old 17-11-2009, 12:43 AM   #103
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If I recall correctly, the USA/Pocket editions use the English spellings ("honour" as opposed to "honor"). I remember that because, when first reading the books when I was 14, that was my first exposure to alternate spellings of words I was VERY familiar with. It had such an impact on me that, to this day, I still on occasion use English spelling when I write. I think it looks more "classy & sophisticated"...I recall when the Timothy Dalton/James Bond flick "Licence To Kill" was released, people here in the USA were all a-flutter because the producers "misspelled" the word license...
I sort of remember the last, but I've seen the variations between U.S. and U.K. spellings since just before or a fair amount since then, so it never really bothered me. Pocket-book wise, it seems then that the original Tubb or Rankine versions were used pretty much unaltered, which I think still leaves the mystery of the timing between the U.S. and U.K. versions on why one equated Meta = Terra Nova and one didn't, and which one came first, especially since Tubb seemed to be willing to alter some things around. Oh well, just a curiosity.

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No, it's spelt "civilization" in the UK edition as well. Contrary to popular belief, that's not exclusively a US spelling, it's a perfectly acceptable British spelling too. (Words mainly from a Greek origin use the "-ize" suffix and those of Latin origin tend to use "-ise". However, some publishers prefer to use the "-ise" suffix throughout their style guides, although the Oxford English Dictionary still prioritizes "-ize" for Greek derived words.) Here endeth the lesson.
And a very interesting lesson it is. I do find etymology interesting to read and do have some occasional off-hand sense of word origins, though I wouldn't call it even a hobby at this point. I was not aware of that particular suffix origin prioritization case, though, nor that both forms of civili?ation are used in the U.K. Linguistic evolution can be very interesting, and I played with a few linguistic devices in one of my fanfic stories, as part of some linguistic threads I'm increasingly running through my stories.

I had Maya knowing English but since she's got a few gaps, and got the information second-hand, I had her "unconsciously" applying a few "Psychon" linguistic tendencies (that I made up) to her way of perceiving and using English, that showed up when I wrote dialogue or such from her POV, and that those tendencies were starting to fade from outward (however subtle) use as she was exposed to more English in writing. Likewise, when something was said or thought from a British person's POV, I used British spelling as much as I could, and similarly American spelling patterns for people I was assuming came from the U.S. (I kept all dialogue in quotes rather than apostrophies, however, as mixing them would have been pointlessly distracting.) Anyway, I'm drifting off topic.

Everyone: Thanks for the comments and analysis of Meta and Terra Nova. Very interesting. It is too bad they didn't write an episode that got them there before starting to skitter across vast distances. Either it indeed took them some time to sort out Computer and get better information such that they realized they weren't going to get there, or, as I like to think, some other phenomenon asserted itself on the "edge" of the solar system that propelled them outwards at a faster speed from system to system for the rest of their journey.

As to some other (re)ordering thoughts....

I saw suggestion somewhere that "Black Sun" would have seemed a natural choice to follow after Breakaway, to be what gave the Moon that first big jump even further from the sun, but there was character development and other dialogue in both "Black Sun" and MOLAD makes me think these two episodes could have actually been displaced later by just a few episodes (not many).

Someone in this thread suggested moving RATM forward before "Black Sun" but still after MOLAD. I guess I could move RATM even further forward, as there seems to be a bit more between John and Helena in MOLAD than I would expect for MOLAD being a second episode. Only problem... I'm not sure I would have liked to see "Breakaway" followed by my least favorite episode of the whole series! Someone pointed/implied making "Luton" second in Y2 would be a weak follow-up to "Metamorph" and maybe not the best choice. Personally, I've never minded "Luton" which is at least entertaining with some very good character moments, as opposed to COTM which has a few character moments but that I generally did not like much).

Oh yikes, now I'm imagining "Breakaway" followed by RATM and "Metamorph" by RATM. Those, to me, would have been dreadful best-to-worst 1st-2nd episode groupings!

I agree with CalgaryAlphan's assessment early in the thread about the character development that had Carter becoming less antagonistic and more loyal to Koenig as time progressed. On a somewhat different front, Carter was frequently arguing with Kano (or at least the latter's conclusions) a lot. Did this change over time or did they remain occasionally adversarial throughout Y1?

Paul's little temporary melt-down (however externally induced) in "Last Sunset" was one that seemed well-placed too, and to me, even if it was a temporary situation, it seemed to uncover some deeper concerns, and I found it rather interesting to see later episodes through the lens of this incident, and between that and the bits of his past that appeared in the next episode ("Voyager's Return") were interesting character development for him, that I think influenced the way I saw the character in subsequent episodes. I've seen this taken in interesting directions in other stories, including one of the Powys novels.

CR pointed out that the Eric Bernard remix placed "Rules of Luton" right after "Metamorph", possibly as a good "first mission" for Maya, and that is actually a good approach given the material at hand. Unfortunately, I did not get to see the Space: 2099 remix so I can't comment on any further edits besides episode order, but I can't recall anything in "Luton" that would really be affected by pulling that episode forward. I notice he did leave "The Exiles" early in the season (third), which still works well in many ways, including regarding Maya (she's at Koenig's side professionally a fair amount of the time but mostly listening and then offering her opinions afterwards). There were subtle signs of her adjusting to Alpha in terms of her approach to such situations, though they certainly missed the boat in not doing something more with that early after Psychon. Neither episode shows any real signs of a relationship with Tony yet, either, IMO. While speaking of couples, "Exiles" has a well-timed John and Helena scene as well, I think.

"Devil's Planet": I womder if this could have been placed almost anywhere in Y2, as other than the brief flashbacks courtesy of the Ellnan brain device (for which other flashbacks could have been substituted, I suppose -- did it have any Y1 flashes, I wonder, since I've heard that flashbacks crossing seasons can create headaches in terms of having to pay more residuals?). John is the only major regular character in the episode, with some secondaries, due to having to film some episodes concurrently ("Dorzak" being the other at that point), so maybe it would be easier to move without upsetting other (inter)character development. Been awhile since I've seen DP so I'm not sure.

Eric Bernard's early re-edits and then S20 put "War Games" just before "Metamorph", and while I agree with many that TOA is a fine way to end Y1, the early re-edit (entitled "God's Will") makes a very convincing bridging argument between seasons. Some of the themes of the episode were changed in GW (can't speak to S20's version, "Sidon's Revenge"), but GW made it clear the episode was flexible and injecting some other clips from elsewhere were very effective, IMO. I got into a more detailed discussion about this with cricket, offline, at one point awhile back, after I watched it, and there were so many details that were very well re-tied via this. I found in a remarkable interpretation. I think I'll re-visit that discussion and adapt my points as analysis in the KB or elsewhere. (If so, I'll try to post a link here.)

Oh, back to actual broadcast.... Since the series went into syndication as first broadcast. So besides the pre-emption that apparently occurred on some stations, I have to wonder if there were other re-ordering decisions, of stations perhaps picking and choosing things? I don't know a lot of internal details of how this works. I remember hearing that Crusade, the follow-up to Babylon 5 had many of its episodes re-ordered almost from the start -- but I'm not sure of this. Then again, wasn't that TNT? Maybe an apples/oranges comparison. I don't want to start a B5C discussion, but if even a non-syndicated(?) series had its order altered by its broadcaster, I wonder how much this might have been done with S19? Given there were subtle continuities throughout S19, that wouldn't have been so great, though obviously less detrimental than with series with a more distinct progressing framework ("arc").
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Old 17-11-2009, 12:58 AM   #104
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Funny, I just ordered the A&E Bonus disc on eBay and received it yesterday. Had to immediately watch the DD episode because the color always bugged me on the original disc. The first time I watched it years ago I couldn't figure out who the men with the Blue Sleeves were...
Don't you know they were from Water Section? They carried weapons to safeguard that all-important water recycling plant. They went on missions as well, to help search for new water supplies. Given they were armed, the Blue Sleeves were handy in a pinch if the Purple Sleeves in Security Section ran low in numbers during major crises....

I should have asked for someone to provide a screencap that I could post this to the "Captions" megathread instead.

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didn't realize they were suppose to be Security Guards with Purple Sleeves.
Seriously, though, the color was that bad on disk? Wow. I wouldn't expect that for DVD; but then again, just because you can put anything on disk doesn't mean doesn't magically correct poor or un-remastered source material....

Last edited by tx4; 17-11-2009 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Divided the quote for a little more clarity in my resonse.
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Old 17-11-2009, 01:33 AM   #105
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Yes, marginalized. He even says himself, "I'm not one of your team of experts." But that doesn't stop him muscling in, trying to claim the authority he thinks he should have. He says he should go out to the ship, but Koenig overrules that. He pretty much demands to be presented to Zantor as the representative of Earth. He just doesn't strike me as a man who'd meekly sit in his quarters and let events go on around him. In "Matter of Life and Death" for instance, I could see him trying to take over the interrogation of Lee Russell - on the grounds that he's the head of the space programme, representative of Earth, etc. In "Black Sun", he'd be throwing his weight around, demanding that Koenig did something more to get them out of there - and once the survival ship is planned, Simmonds would surely be trying to get himself named as one of the crew. As Earthbound demonstrates, his survival instinct is just too strong...
Interesting points. I still think Koenig's keeping Simmonds marginalized until this starts boiling over could work as an explanation for the latter's lack of presence in four episodes between "Breakaway" and "Earthbound" -- but your points are a good reason why "Earthbound" could be placed after "Breakaway"

It is tempting to consider, but I'd have the same problem with that reordering of otherwise-unchanged episodes that I have long had with MOLAD being the second: dialog and some character development suggesting they've been through a number of experiences beforehand, plus the journey time to Earth the Kaldorians mentioned (that someone else brought up in this thread) -- though the last could perhaps be "explained" in other ways. I suppose if some of the dialog in "Earthbound" was different, to eliminate the frustration Simmonds has with past incidents... but that eliminates some of the tension. Then again, we could all assume there were a few "unfilmed" incidents after "Breakaway" before either MOLAD or "Earthbound" just as easily, just as I like to think there was something more between "Metamorph" and "Exiles"

Then there is this interesting point....

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Earthbound, available via Fanderson, adapts the ep "Earthbound," and mentions that Simmonds had been killed during the Breakaway, but resuscitated by Medical with a period of recovery/convalescence afterward. Helps explain his absence for a few episodes after "Breakaway."
Ah ha! Now that's an interesting thought! Or, if we want to adapt a bit of that but stick with canon, where Simmond's picking himself up off the Main Mission floor after Alpha's artificial gravity compensates for slowing Breakaway deceleration, and he's got a bloodied forehead.... I'd speculate that maybe he suffered a concussion (or subdural hematoma perhaps?) that isn't diagnosed until everyone's been checked over, and by that time has gotten a little worse and requires some convalescence, but keeps some tabs on progress (or perceived lack thereof) and then comes roaring back, angry and ready to demand recognition and action.
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Old 17-11-2009, 02:32 AM   #106
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tx4, yes, Carla was portrayed in a rather Kaldorian fashion, so it was an almost natural leap for me to assume that heritage for her. The white hair established a physical connection.
Well, I'm convinced.

I agree it is doubtful anyone considered it per se during writing or filming, but it still works! Unless she was given a white wig to distance any recognition she played a character in Y1, and someone saw that and had a thought? Unlikely though. (Or given the longer gap between filming and broadcast of Y1, that Isla Blair herself saw "Earthbound" and decided to add a little characterization to Carla herself after seeing the white wig. Very, very unlikely, though. Guest characters usually see their roles as just another job, from what I understand.)

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(Actually, "JtW" could almost work as a Season 1 ep, with some fine-tuning & character switches. cricket & I had discussed this some time ago, though I don't believe either of us mentioned it on any of the public threads.)
I think she and I discussed something like that too at some point. Though I like it just fine as a Y2 episode , I agree it wouldn't take a ton for it to have been reworked as a Y1 episode. That would have placed the majority of Earth references back in Y1; not that this would have been a problem or anything, but I kind of like that while the Alphans are seemingly starting to get more used to being cut off from Earth in Y2, adapting more, only to get a call out of the blue, and being right back to that eagerness to return, little diminished by the timeframe and Earth's current state.

That JTW is in Y2, and they've gotten to another galaxy, and it sounds like another galaxy may be in the way soon (mentioned in JTW before the poor use of the word "constellation" later), does make a poignant "last chance" aspect to this, having JTW a little later (i.e. in Y2). BOW doesn't contradict this and even adds to it in a way, that after probalby losing more hope of an Earth return, post-JTW, those feelings could be brought "right back," tapped by the aliens (even having to argue Koenig's still a bit hazy on a few things after alien and machine influencing his brain, even if mostly for the positive in the latter case, like the time dilation).
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