NASA's $100B moon program gets killed

[JD]

I thought Armstrong had the only camera on the EVA.

Arthur C. Clarke wrote that he'd like to see the population of the Earth reduced to a supportable 1 billion. It'd be nice to see that happen without some sort of catastrophic event (war, plague, famine, the collapse of the oceanic ecosystem, etc...), and certainly one possibility is having somewhere else to go.

Be a shame to focus on 'fixing' everything here while abandoning the rest of the solar system, if that turned out to be the ultimate solution.

Alternative energy sources are on the way. We have no choice: we can only burn dinosaurs for so long before they either run out or exploiting the final reserves becomes hideously expensive. The theoretical stuff is happening now, and this research and demonstrator technology is going to come to the fore in the next two decades. Ever heard of Liquid Florium Reactors?

As for nay-saying the LHC as 'pure research', eminent academics only a little over a century ago held the view that man understood the basics of all science, and that all that was left was to fill in the details. Gravity was Newtonian, the atom was indivisible and all was right with the world. Then along came electro-magnetism and the entire world changed. Then we delved into the strong and weak nuclear forces and the world changed again.

The promise of the LHC is to answer the mysteries of the so-called 'fifth force' and/or to unify the four known forces into one elegant and simple equation. And, just as before when our boundaries have been expanded, from that will come new applications and technologies we aren't equipped to even guess at!

I guess in that sense the LHC will destroy the world, by creating a new one.

What we do with it is another matter...

[saturnapollo]

I thought Armstrong had the only camera on the EVA.

They shared the camera. The flight plan called for Aldrin to take certain engineering photos which included a panorama of the LM and there is one photo of the back of Armstrong at the MESA. No one actually thought to plan for him to take a photo of the first man on the Moon. Some say Aldrin didn't as he was miffed that he wasn't first out, but others say, because of his training he never thought to deviate from the plan. After that, the plan was for Armstrong to use the camera for the remainder of the EVA, hence all the photos of Aldrin.

Keith

[JD]

Ah! Thanks, Keith!

Originally Posted by saturnapollo

Some say Aldrin didn't as he was miffed that he wasn't first out

Aldrin spoke about a lot of his thinking after the fact, but I've always thought more is made of that than played out at the time. Whenever I hear or see the man himself in the media he comes across as bigger than that.

[Steve Gerard]

I know this is not about the Apollo Moon Program. However, I like to think that NASA 747 Space Shuttle Carrier was inspired by the UFO SHADO LUNAR MODULE CARRIER.

[Blue Moon]

Of course the worst news for members is-we won't get our Alpha!

[VTracy]

Originally Posted by Blue Moon

Of course the worst news for members is-we won't get our Alpha!

Sure we will! Just start with your Mandarin lessons soon.


http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...-+SciTech%2529

[Tim Smith]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

For me, science fiction can only work as allegory or as a warning about overstepping ourselves before we're ready - I wonder about the people who wobble on about warp drive and the relative merits of phasers and disruptors while ignoring the message of a story.



There are greater wonders on this little ball of rock we're living on about which we only understand a tiny fraction, a planet that is very likely unique in harbouring life of any kind, let alone intelligent life? Once we understand our own world and ourselves will we be ready to start taking steps away from earth.




"We" as a race have to get past the dreamers, warmongers and sheer fantasists and put right the problems that our science, our ignorance (go figure what I mean by that) and our prejudices have caused our world. Now THAT is some hurdle. We don't stand a cat in hell's chance if we don't sort that first.

And speaking of fantasies, waiting for things to made perfect on Earth before we venture forth is impossible. It will never happen. And why must one be chosen over the other?
Sorry, Stari, but the sooner we get out there, the better. The sooner something is cosen and we stick with it, the better.
Thank heavens for the private companies that will eventually pave the way!

[Tim Smith]

Originally Posted by Steve Gerard

I know this is not about the Apollo Moon Program. However, I like to think that NASA 747 Space Shuttle Carrier was inspired by the UFO SHADO LUNAR MODULE CARRIER.

A nice thought! Not sure of that, though. It would have had a hard time by train, I think! Originally, it was suggested to transport it by barge to the Cape. Then they looked at a Galaxy transport, but the "T" shaped tale they decided was too risky for the drop tests. Then they bought a 747...well, you know the rest. Some years ago I got a book up in Huntsville that covered the development of the shuttle for early concepts up through STS 50. Hundreds of cool details and facts! I hope I can get a follow up that covers from STS 51 to the end of the program one day...but I'm not in a hurry for it to be published!

[Fun Pod]

Ahem.

Gentlemen. I have very thoroughly considered your collective, deeply insightful commentary and criticism.

May I state that I am most impressed with your breadth of knowledge, and your obvious passion for the subject.

But, and at risk of accusation of partisanship to the pro-space programme fraternity, it seems to me that one small comment stated earlier would summarize my stance on the matter:

Originally Posted by Tim Smith

(Elect me and by golly we will have that kind of program!)

Vote for Tim!, I say.

[CessnaDriver]

Star Trek's Mike and Denise Okuda are fighting back...

http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/02/...loration.shtml

I've joined in the battle myself.

There is a good chance things can turn around for the better in congress.

[eaglewingone]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

Star Trek's Mike and Denise Okuda are fighting back...

http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/02/...loration.shtml

I've joined in the battle myself.

There is a good chance things can turn around for the better in congress.

There is reality though. The Congress always funds the big prorities first(Defense,Medicare,Social Security,Medicaid) because they eat the majority of the budget. NASA has always been low in the totem pole.

[eaglewingone]

A Royal Air Force officer on Tuesday became the first active-duty service pilot from the United Kingdom to take to the skies in a Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF).

RAF Squadron Leader Steve Long piloted BF-2, the second short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) F-35B, over Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md., logging the aircraft's 18th mission. Long departed at 9:55 a.m. EST and flew the aircraft to 20,000 feet, before landing 1.3 hours later. Both the RAF and the Royal Navy plan to operate the F-35B.

"Flying the F-35 was exactly like the simulators that I've been flying for over 18 months now, which gives you a lot of confidence in all the modeling and simulation work that has been done in all the other areas of the flight envelope," Long said, adding that it was a "privilege" to fly the F-35. "What this aircraft really gives the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy is a quantum leap in airborne capability because of the sensor suite it carries. An F-35 pilot will have an unprecedented level of situational awareness about what's going on in the airspace around him or her, and also on the battlefield or ocean below. Not only that, but the F-35 will plug into coalition battlefield networks and be able to pass that picture on to all other players in the network."

With the capability to operate from a variety of ships or austere runways, the F-35B can deploy closer to shore or near front lines, shrinking distance and time to the target, increasing sortie rates and greatly reducing the need for support assets. The Lightning II's sensor suite is the most powerful and comprehensive of any fighter in history, and will combine with an unprecedented networking capability to give unparalleled situational awareness.

U.K. Joint Combat Aircraft Project Team Leader, Air Commodore Graham Farnell, has stated that the U.K. has been closely involved in JSF since its inception. "It is therefore an honour to witness an RAF pilot flying BF-2 during this important phase of the F-35B flight test, and further demonstrates the closeness and mutual trust between our respective nations and their armed forces," Farnell said. "Squadron Leader Long has been preparing for this opportunity since his arrival in the U.S. well over a year ago, and this occasion is a testament not only to the work undertaken in the Integrated Test Force, to which the U.K. provides considerable expertise, but also to the wider JSF community in both government and industry.
“We look forward to the JSF flight test program meeting its targets in 2010, with today being one of many such occasions in the next year of JSF. The U.K. is now preparing pilots and maintainers for initial training at Eglin so that we can begin operating our aircraft in 2011 alongside our colleagues from the United States Marine Corps,” he said.

Squadron Leader Long is the third active-duty service member to fly the F-35. (The jet also has been flown by U.S. Air Force and U.S. Marine Corps pilots.) Long has more than 2,200 hours of flight time and currently flies the F-18A-D with the U.S. Marines. He joined the RAF in 1995, and his operational experience has included more than 100 sorties over Kosovo and Bosnia, Sierra Leone and Iraq, including three months of embarked time aboard H.M.S. Illustrious, and seven months on the U.S.S. Bonhomme Richard.

The U.K. has invested $2 billion in the F-35's development – the largest contribution among the program’s eight partner nations. The Joint Combat Aircraft (JCA) program announced in December that the United Kingdom received financial approval to purchase its third F-35B operational test aircraft, reinforcing the U.K.’s continued commitment to the JSF program’s upcoming Operational Test and Evaluation (OT&E) phase.

The F-35 Lightning II is a 5th generation fighter, combining advanced stealth with fighter speed and agility, fully fused sensor information, network-enabled operations, advanced sustainment, and lower operational and support costs. Lockheed Martin is developing the F-35 with its principal industrial partners, Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems. Two separate, interchangeable F-35 engines are under development: the Pratt & Whitney F135 and the GE Rolls-Royce Fighter Engine Team F136.

http://www.air-attack.com/news/artic...rtin-F-35.html

[mastercaster]

Obama's decision to cancel the "Moon program" may have just cost him the state of Florida come election time in a couple of years. Not something that any good politician would do. People around Florida are not happy with Mr. Hope and Change right now. There is a very active "Space Community" politically, around Central Florida, and the rest of Florida as a whole. Last time I checked, Florida had been pretty integral to the choosing of a President over the past few elections. Hopefully, this will spur the private sector on to the moon for mining purposes and space tourism (for the rich that is).

[Senmut]

Somehow, I'm not surprised.

[eaglewingone]

Originally Posted by mastercaster

Obama's decision to cancel the "Moon program" may have just cost him the state of Florida come election time in a couple of years. Not something that any good politician would do. People around Florida are not happy with Mr. Hope and Change right now. There is a very active "Space Community" politically, around Central Florida, and the rest of Florida as a whole. Last time I checked, Florida had been pretty integral to the choosing of a President over the past few elections. Hopefully, this will spur the private sector on to the moon for mining purposes and space tourism (for the rich that is).

Not really. Florida is even in the polling when it comes to Republicans and Democrats. You still have the Southern Florida owned by the Dems.Based on voting patterns since 1992, Florida is trending Democrat in presidential elections. However,Florida is the 25th most conservative state, voting for Obama in 2008 but 2.81% more Republican than the national average.

[JMChladek]

Believe me, this budget issue WILL LIKELY have an effect on Florida's voting outcome as it doesn't mean anything if the voters belong to one party or the other. When I was down there for Ares 1-X in October, there was already some concern in the local communities about how a lack of manned space launches for the forseeable future would impact the local economy. Orlando might fare well as it already has Disney World and other attractions, but the communities closer to Cocoa Beach, Cape Canaveral and Titusville will certainly see a hit. Cocoa Beach already has Spring Break to look forward to every spring (many weeks in fact), but the shuttle launches of the last few years have been drawing more crowds to the region and they pump in a lot of dollars to the local economy in terms of housing, food and car rentals. Hotels can charge THREE TIMES as much for a shuttle launch day as any other. But even if one leaves the tourism factor out, workers at KSC have to live somewhere and their continued presence in the area also bolsters the local economy. Keep in mind the region also is still recovering a little from the onslaught of two major hurricane seasons in 2004 and 2005. It affected things there quite a bit, even if the damage isn't easy to spot.

[Tim Smith]

Originally Posted by Fun Pod

Ahem.

Gentlemen. I have very thoroughly considered your collective, deeply insightful commentary and criticism.

May I state that I am most impressed with your breadth of knowledge, and your obvious passion for the subject.

But, and at risk of accusation of partisanship to the pro-space programme fraternity, it seems to me that one small comment stated earlier would summarize my stance on the matter:



Vote for Tim!, I say.

I second that, and need a new job anyway!!

[Tim Smith]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

Star Trek's Mike and Denise Okuda are fighting back...

http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/02/...loration.shtml

I've joined in the battle myself.

There is a good chance things can turn around for the better in congress.

I hope that maybe if the
Constellation program does not come back, it may give the possibly cheaper Jupiter rocket a chance. Lets just be sure we have a heavy lift rocket on some kind.

[mastercaster]

South Florida may be a Dem base for voting, but that only applies when their own pockets are not affected. JM had it right. Titusville, Cape Canaveral, Cocoa Beach and everyone else on the "Space Coast" is going to be (not "will likely") affected. I know half a dozen people who work in and around the space program currently. After the Shuttle program goes the way of the Dodo, the entire area will dry up like a ghost town. Just like it did after the Apollo program was shut down. I've talked with two people already who know that they will be without a job after the "last bird flies". There will be no Constellation program to continue on to. The Kennedy Space Center Visitors Center gets it's biggest influx of business during shuttle launches. They will be lucky to keep it open. I've talked to Democrats and Republicans who voted for him in 2008, but after the NASA budget debacle, will not vote for him again. Incidentally, I live here in Orlando where this discussion gets quite a bit of play, both in personal conversation, and in the media. Two of the people who are losing their jobs also come to our IPMS meetings every month. If you remember the images of Iraqi's and Iranians burning Bush dolls in effigy, then you will get a feel for the feelings about Obama in the Central Florida area currently. It would seem that only the welfare/foodstamp people still think Obama will still lead them to the promised land.

Now that the Chambers of Commerces of the Space Coast cities know that NASA has been cut off at the knees, they have been heavily recruiting the private sector companies to move their "space operations" to Central Florida. They are hoping that their "selling points" about current infrstructure will lure them here and away from places like Arizona and New Mexico. It's going to be a hard sell. I only hope that whomever occupies the Oval Office next has better foresight into where this country needs to be with regards to space exploration, budget shortfall or no.

[CessnaDriver]

As I expected, congress is having none of this.


NASA Plan Falls Flat In Congress

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...0In%20Congress

Excerpt...

NASA’s proposed policy turnaround faces stiff bipartisan opposition in Congress, which twice authorized the George W. Bush administration’s Constellation program with bipartisan support.

In back-to-back Senate and House hearings by the NASA authorizing committees this week, members from both parties sharply questioned Administrator Charles Bolden about the new plan he was defending. No lawmaker in either hearing endorsed the change.

Objections to it fall into two broad categories — the lack of a clear objective in space for the new program, and the “faith-based” belief, in the words of one House member, that a commercial route to orbit for U.S. astronauts is better than the government-managed Ares I and Orion vehicles.

Members also are irritated over delays in getting specifics of the broad-brush plan released Feb. 1, and the apparent lack of consultation outside a small administration circle in the decision to make such a “radical” change away from a space policy Congress has endorsed.





Peek at what congress will propose....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...nasa-plan.html

A draft Congressional bill leaked to Flight International sets out the politicians' alternate plan. It involves possibly extending Shuttle life to 2015, running competitive commercial crew and cargo programmes and continuing development of Constellation's vehicles including a heavylift rocket designed to get astronauts to the Moon in the 2020s and then Mars.


Keeping up the fight!
http://www.supportconstellation.com