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Old 12-05-2011, 09:12 PM   #21
TVC21
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Hi, added an (obviously unfinished) 1st gen Penny head cast, suddenly really looks cool!

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Old 13-05-2011, 07:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris King View Post
Hi, added an (obviously unfinished) 1st gen Penny head cast, suddenly really looks cool!

That's an understatement...

Please tell me you are planning a restoration (including a puppet) for demo purposes?

Can I ask from which series they started to use this rig? Was it Thunderbirds or earlier?
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Old 13-05-2011, 12:01 PM   #23
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Hi, yes I plan a full restoration to a working puppet. She was used in TB6, possibly built for TBAG but I can`t find it onscreen. Its used in the Tigermoth sequences. Interestingly, don`t know if the pics show this, but you can see that it was initially painted a far lighter tone of flesh colour. This ties up with the fact that Lady P has a far darker `tanned` appearence in TB6 than she does in the series or previous film.
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Old 13-05-2011, 04:07 PM   #24
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Is the cast from a TB6 Penny or one of the earlier ones? There was a difference I think.....unless anyone knows different lol
I agree it looks teriffic!
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Old 13-05-2011, 06:53 PM   #25
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Is the cast from a TB6 Penny or one of the earlier ones? There was a difference I think.....unless anyone knows different lol
I agree it looks teriffic!
Hi Ed, no difference in the heads other than they were `tarted up` (ie Penny got darker skin and a blonder wig) - bit of a myth about different heads tbh. A couple of heads were remade by casting off originals (and shrunk accordingly) but nothing was resculpted.
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Old 13-05-2011, 08:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Sci-Fi View Post
Can I ask from which series they started to use this rig? Was it Thunderbirds or earlier?
See post 15 on this thread for some background info Cap'n.
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Old 13-05-2011, 09:33 PM   #27
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The undercontrol system was first introduced In Thunderbirds are Go, to enable close-up scenes of The Hood to be filmed, as the strings entering his head were so obvious on the big screen. As it turned out the scenes featuring this puppet (which can often be seen in uncropped promotional images) were actually dropped from the finished film. Having developed the system, the studiio then found it ideal for filming shots of puppets in cars and aircraft cockpits, as these could now be filmed without obvious holes in the canopies etc.
Having watched the film again, you do see the undercontrol Hood in one shot, as he tries to make his getaway in the launch after being rumbled by Scott in disguise on Zero X (might restore him in that Zero X jacket!)can`t see any sign of the Lady P undercontrol till TB6 though, although Terry C reckons it was made for TBAG (unless anyone else has spotted it?)
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Old 14-05-2011, 06:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Terrainean View Post
The undercontrol system was first introduced In Thunderbirds are Go, to enable close-up scenes of The Hood to be filmed, as the strings entering his head were so obvious on the big screen. As it turned out the scenes featuring this puppet (which can often be seen in uncropped promotional images) were actually dropped from the finished film. Having developed the system, the studiio then found it ideal for filming shots of puppets in cars and aircraft cockpits, as these could now be filmed without obvious holes in the canopies etc.
Hi AT,

Note to self: "Read the thread!"

Cap'n
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Old 15-05-2011, 12:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris King View Post
Hi, yes I plan a full restoration to a working puppet. She was used in TB6, possibly built for TBAG but I can`t find it onscreen. Its used in the Tigermoth sequences. Interestingly, don`t know if the pics show this, but you can see that it was initially painted a far lighter tone of flesh colour. This ties up with the fact that Lady P has a far darker `tanned` appearence in TB6 than she does in the series or previous film.
Cool idea! I'd love to see how you handle a replica Lady P. It's a slight digression off topic, but having followed this thread for years, I'm yet to see anyone make a convincing Lady Penelope replica, i.e. one that truly matches the Penelope we see in the series/films. Even Sylvia Anderson's actual Lady Penelope that went up for auction in the 1990's wasn't quite spot onbecause it was a "blinker" puppet that had had the mechanism removed, so the eyes looked too big for the face. Can't wait to see how you progress.
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Old 16-05-2011, 03:14 PM   #30
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I'm yet to see anyone make a convincing Lady Penelope replica, i.e. one that truly matches the Penelope we see in the series/films.
One of the major difficulties with creating a replica Penelope is with the wig - I don't think I've seen one reproduction that manages to replicate any of her various hairstyles convincingly (possibly why the black and white brimmed hat and matching coat is often chosen as an outfit !). Having had a wig made by a professional company for a later style puppet that was less than satisfactory, it becomes even more obvious how skilled the AP/Century 21 puppet makers and their suppliers were in this area.
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Old 16-05-2011, 06:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Terrainean View Post
One of the major difficulties with creating a replica Penelope is with the wig - I don't think I've seen one reproduction that manages to replicate any of her various hairstyles convincingly (possibly why the black and white brimmed hat and matching coat is often chosen as an outfit !). Having had a wig made by a professional company for a later style puppet that was less than satisfactory, it becomes even more obvious how skilled the AP/Century 21 puppet makers and their suppliers were in this area.
Wouldn't happen to be this one, would it?



Can't say I'm a big fan of this hairstyle. I think this pic is from one of the big screen Thunderbirds adventures. For once, it clearly does look like a wig, and an ill-fitting one at that!
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Old 16-05-2011, 07:39 PM   #32
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Sorry, may be I didn't make myself clear, the wig I was referring to was one that I'd had made for a female puppet, and I wish it had been half as good as the one in that picture !
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Old 13-07-2011, 09:35 PM   #33
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Spent a bit more time delving through what I have....turns out the Scarlet torso I have should actually fit sideways as shown in the attached pics - it was seperated but with some detective work I found the handle that corresponds to it, the resin lines up. Here it is with head added to show what the complete puppet would have looked like;



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Old 16-07-2011, 02:25 PM   #34
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Undercontrol guard head showing weight



Undercontrol eye wires still in place!



Good reference to the Scarlet undercontrol, note electric ring connector, elastic tie downs and the eye wires. Additional wires on Scarlet for shoulder lights.

SIG

Last edited by fab1; 16-07-2011 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 18-07-2011, 02:50 PM   #35
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Guys,

That's just amazing, thanks so much for sharing...

Can I ask what the control handle movements operate? I can see it's possible to twist the grip, is this for head movement and how are the eye wires actuated?

I love this sort of stuff and the more I see the more I respect the technicians who designed and built these rigs and puppets.
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Old 18-07-2011, 03:50 PM   #36
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The elastics from the head are tied to the top of the handle to move the head, both twiting and nodding, which is achieved using the solenoid ball joint as a pivot. The heads are also weighted at the top to help the tilting process. The eye wires are a mystery, havent as yet seen what they are attached to. Over to Chris I think for that one! (Maybe they had something resembling the rocker of the overhead controls.)
(A lot of the original studio shots show two people operating under control puppets, so busy busy to get the little guys working!.)
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Old 18-07-2011, 08:21 PM   #37
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So the solenoid in the picture above is below the neck in the box with the writing on it?

I am guessing that a control cable and sleeve running through the main shaft actually open the mouth and the lower lip material closes it?

It makes sense to move it outside to allow more room in the smaller head space of the human scaled puppets.

I can see that the head weight would smooth out the smaller motions and damp down unwanted movement perhaps.

I never imagined these puppets were so engineered, but when you really think about the range of movements needed they would have to be really.

Marvellous.
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Old 20-07-2011, 04:02 PM   #38
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There`s a spring on the bottom lip to return it to position. A cable runs from the solenoid up through the centre of the neck bearing and attaches to the cantilever behind the mouth. Pulling the cantilever down pushes against a wire loop attached to the back of the lower lip and makes it open.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:03 AM   #39
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if you look at the bottom of the picture of the hood in post 16 you can see some of the under control wires anyway i want to make my own puppet series and was wondering how i could make an under control puppet with the whole body can anyone help me with this problem
-thanks
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:01 PM   #40
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All of the C21 undercontrols were torso only. I guess you would be looking at a `Muppet` style puppet?
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