George Lucas fails to sue replica costume maker

[w8cmp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14287864

Very interesting case this one...

[Howard]

To be honest, I'm surprised at the outcome.
But, I must admit to being sick of Star Wars now.
It's not about the movies anymore (and hasn't been for a very long time) but simply about product.
The sheer amount of utter crap produced by Lucasfilm Licensing is staggering.
I don't know if it's out of GL's hands (more than likely) but he really needs to get a grip on the stuff they're expecting fans to shell out for - I'm no green, but their carbon footprint for all that rubbish must be huge.
As the article states in the link above, GL's estimated worth is $2bn. There must be a point when even GL has to say, enough is enough, and that the fans don't really need and R2D2 toothbrush, or a Star Wars cook book. (Saying this, they'd probably need the former after the latter).

[stingray48442]

yes i agree to a point but would you be saying the same thing if it were gerry anderson i sertanly would not, i hate the new star wars movies i do like indiana jones you have to addmit what better way to get a child to brush his teeth than with a r2d2 toothbrush

[Howard]

Well it comes down to quality, not quantity.
If you look at the majority of Anderson stuff, it's high quality. When I was a kid back in the early 70s the Dinky toys were fantastic toys - highly sought after and very robust.

Most of (if not all) the Master Replicas Star Wars props and models I've had over the recent years (now all sold) had a few problems with them regards quality of finish.
The first Han Solo ANH blaster I had was superb - and was made in the USA - the following replica releases all came out of China and were not.
So I guess I would be saying the same thing if it were Gerry Anderson stuff, depending on the quality of the quantity.

The best way to get a kid to brush his teeth is to show him how to do it, and show him what happens to teeth when they're not brushed.
I didn't have an Anderson based character toothbrush to encourage me when I was a kid - just parents with toothpaste, a toothbrush and a desire for me to keep my teeth.

[stingray48442]

lighten up cant blame the guy for wanting to hold on to his billions of dollars besides eating sugar smaks and pretend cigaret candy with pictures of ufo and captain scarlet was not a bright idea eather i for one enjoyed them never got hooked onto smoking real cigarets thank the gods lol

[Howard]

Lighten up?
I'm being light.
I don't blame GL for the products - it's a safe bet he doesn't get to okay them nowadays, so essentially it's not his fault - I just wish someone would point it all out to him.
I guess the majority of the products bearing the Star / Clone Wars names walk hand in hand with the latter four films regards quality, so therefore are representitive of what you're gonna get once the money changes hands and you open the box.

[w8cmp]

But this was a victory for the guy that built the original costume and makes replicas to sell to fans. Lucas was sueing over copyright, and lost as the work was deemed to be an industrial piece and not artwork and thus has a copyright lifespan of only 15 years.
A victory for the little guy rather than the Hollywood mogul...

[Howard]

I know - there's a huge thread - well, two actually over at the RPF.
It is a victory for the little guy, and for that I'm pleased (although AA's claims are a little, how can I put it? 'colourful' regards his role way back in 1976) but more so I'm pleased because GL's arm cannot reach this far over the atlantic, and that AA and his family wasn't put out on the streets penniless for the sake of a plastic helmet.

[Andy2035]

Whilst I agree with protecting copyright's, just how much money does a person need, come on $2 BILLION, isn't it about time to share the wealth...

It's not like the chap is making inferior things that will bring Star Wars into disrepute, he made the originals and is using the original moulds, so why not give him a break and let someone else make a little money for a change...

[TVC21]

Originally Posted by Andy2035

Whilst I agree with protecting copyright's, just how much money does a person need, come on $2 BILLION, isn't it about time to share the wealth...

It's not like the chap is making inferior things that will bring Star Wars into disrepute, he made the originals and is using the original moulds, so why not give him a break and let someone else make a little money for a change...

But this judgement has far greater implications than GL`s wealth - the pivitol part of the judgement relates to the Supreme Court deciding that film props are industrial designs NOT artistic works, and thus under the Copyright Act being protected by copyright law for a far shorter length of time (10 years I think?) Massive implications for film licensing, the garage kit industry etc....

[Captain Sci-Fi]

Chris is absolutely on the money.... excuse the pun.

It means that anything used in films of more than 15 years age could be made by anyone here and it would be legal. So long as it is not offered for sale in the USA.

I wonder how long it will be before the law changes? I see pressure from the USA will quietly bring our laws into line with theirs, might is always right in the end.

I think GL has completely overreacted and wanted to make an example of this guy not as a punishment fitting a "crime" but as a sabre rattling warning, an "example" made to warn others. Unfortunately it has badly back fired, Lucasfilm should have kept a sense of proportion over this. A little common sense would have shown this one guy making uniforms couldn't hurt the millions of dollars turnover made from his licensing division. Probably the spotlight drawn by this has kept his interest in the public eye and would have cost him a lot more if he had paid for that publicity and column inches in the tabloids, so I hardly think he lost much.

It does mean the garage kit industry can work satisfying the fans interest without being overshadowed by the legals. I honestly believe that fan activity adds huge value to the franchise and keep it alive for possible remakes or "next generations". I am sure GL could have learned a few things from the Star Trek camp at least when Gene ran the show. He recognised that the fan activity rebooted the Star Trek franchise and look how far that has come.

[Captain Cyan]

Totally in accord with your words c'pn sci-fi.If something,each and everyone of the pages of this forum demonstrates de profesionality of passionated fans that more than once put to a shame to the "true" ones.And I agree also on the Chinese side of the question.They must be rubbing their hands in anticipation.By the way,this remembers a lawsuit that Lucasfilm lost against Galactica Long,Long time ago...

[Styrofoam_Guy]

This is the story I got from my 501st friends.

This guy did not design or sculpt the Stormtrooper helmets. He was contracted to make copies of the helmet using someone else's sculpt. The helmets were designed by artist Ralph McQuarrie, sculpted by Liz Moore and Brian Muir.

He claims to have found original moulds of the helmet and was making copies saying they were from the original mould. He claims to have created the original Stormtrooper helmets.

I don't know about now but in the past someone who has purchased one of his helmet could not get into the 501st because it is not accurate.

So imagine the surprise of the guy spending the $$$$ buying a suit expecting it to be screen accurate because they are supposed to be from the original moulds and then told "Sorry not accurate enough"

[JudgeMinty]

Although they are not based on origin original moulds (as pointed out), I pretty sure most costuming clubs like the 501st will except SDS suits for clearance.

It's far more accurate than FX armour (a fan sculpt) which the vast majority of 501st and other Stormtrooper costumers wear. P.S. I own FX

However, if you're looking for extremely accurate Stormtrooper armour, cast from an original screen used suit and endorsed by Brian Muir, search for RS Prop Masters.

George Lucas seems to turn a blind eye to nearly all hobbyists making and selling costumes, I think it was the open advertising and dubious claims of originally creating the sculpts that caused the problem with SDS

[swhite40]

Originally Posted by Howard

but more so I'm pleased because GL's arm cannot reach this far over the atlantic, and that AA and his family wasn't put out on the streets penniless for the sake of a plastic helmet.

Well not yet, but it will be interesting to see what will be left if the lawyers he didn't pay decide to go after him.

As for his loss here in America, he would have never been fined what he was if he hadn't come out and said he didn't care what the court did to him here, then refused to even show up for the trial. When your lawyer can't produce you after your told to appear most judges tend to add a lot of zeros to what ever you would have been fined

He also blew off a C&d which told him to stop selling the stuff in the first place which
in most cases if followed would have had little if any payout to LFL.

Now that Disney owns Lucas Film and the Star Wars rights, and given their rabid desire to protect their interest, it will be interesting to see how they deal with this matter, as well as groups like the 501.

[Styrofoam_Guy]

Originally Posted by Captain Sci-Fi

--Snip--

It does mean the garage kit industry can work satisfying the fans interest without being overshadowed by the legals. I honestly believe that fan activity adds huge value to the franchise and keep it alive for possible remakes or "next generations". I am sure GL could have learned a few things from the Star Trek camp at least when Gene ran the show. He recognised that the fan activity rebooted the Star Trek franchise and look how far that has come.

I have heard of Paramount going into sci-fi conventions with the local police and confiscating anything Trek related that was not licensed. This happened just before a local Sci-fi convention so we had to scramble to make sure the vendors knew that this could happen.

[Styrofoam_Guy]

Originally Posted by swhite40

--snip--

Now that Disney owns Lucas Film and the Star Wars rights, and given their rabid desire to protect their interest, it will be interesting to see how they deal with this matter, as well as groups like the 501.

Those of us in the R2 Builders group hope things stay the same. Hopefully GL has arranged it so Disney does not shut down groups like the 501st and R2 Builders.

[swhite40]

Originally Posted by Styrofoam_Guy

I have heard of Paramount going into sci-fi conventions with the local police and confiscating anything Trek related that was not licensed. This happened just before a local Sci-fi convention so we had to scramble to make sure the vendors knew that this could happen.

Paramount and Disney are both heavy handed in the way they go after folks who make unlicensed merchandise.

The Paramount stories about them sweaping the cons for garage kit props and photos are well known, and include them taking stacks of photos from Trek stars who were going to sign them (at a price) just because they were of them in the Trek makeup.

Disney gets even worse with them going into preschools and ordering Disney characters painted on the walls to be removed or the school must pay a fee to use them. The going rate for schools in the 90's was around $100 a year and the art had to be ok'd, in some cases it was as low as $1.00.
Even at the $1.00 rate there were some who refused to remove their art. Many are no longer in business.

Both are nice up to a point but if you fail to get their ok then it's off to court...and they play for keeps.


On a side note they also don't subscribe to the "if I change x% of the design then it's mine not theirs" argument. My personal law teacher in college was a Disney lawyer who explained it this way...
"If I were to sue you for making a light saber all I need to do is show that a majority of folks when shown the item either say "It's something from Star Wars, or call it a light saber" or in the case of "found parts" sold together that they when put together make a light saber to win the case.

He also said that a lot of times the studio lawyers would pass up a little one off sale unless word came down to crack down on everything, or there had been reports sent to the studio about a person selling items.

[RobWolf]

Originally Posted by Styrofoam_Guy

This is the story I got from my 501st friends.

This guy did not design or sculpt the Stormtrooper helmets. He was contracted to make copies of the helmet using someone else's sculpt. The helmets were designed by artist Ralph McQuarrie, sculpted by Liz Moore and Brian Muir.

He claims to have found original moulds of the helmet and was making copies saying they were from the original mould. He claims to have created the original Stormtrooper helmets.

I don't know about now but in the past someone who has purchased one of his helmet could not get into the 501st because it is not accurate.

So imagine the surprise of the guy spending the $$$$ buying a suit expecting it to be screen accurate because they are supposed to be from the original moulds and then told "Sorry not accurate enough"

I take anything the 501st says on the matter with a whole salt shaker full of salt. As the 'Officially Sanctioned by Lucasfilm' costuming group, they tend to echo offical Lucasfilm position on a lot of stuff, hence if Lucasfilm says "SDS BAD!" the 501st says "SDS BAD!".

As far as the provenance of the SDS helmets goes, I think he is legit in as far as he worked on the orginals, but then the ones he is churning out are not form the ORIGINAL moulds per sé but are rather moulds made from an original helmet...something along those lines, but either way I think the 501st and others go a bit OTT in trying to rubbish the SDS stuff and its provenance

AFAIK though SDS helmets are 501st acceptible in terms of accuracy, it's just not many buy them due to the price
.