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Old 05-05-2013, 07:25 PM   #21
jeb1138
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Yes That would be cool. Does anyone here recognize which eagle it might have been made for? I would guess eagle three.Also Mark if you have some photos of that Enterprise there is a Star Trek section you can post in too. I sure people would love to see that build as well.

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Old 05-05-2013, 08:33 PM   #22
mark harve
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Hi there. It is possible that the wooden master is made from lime wood. It definitely is not jelutong. The surface has been painted as you can see the outlines for the placement of the added panels on the surface which would have been added later. You can also see grey adhesive on the cut outs for the windows. My guess is that the areas were cut too low to begin with and had to be built up later (to cover a bodge?).
Once again I was unaware that there would be that much interest in such old bits. Please let me know if you want any more information.
Mark...
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:19 AM   #23
Lee S
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Great pieces and story behind them.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:13 AM   #24
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Lovely inspiring story from the golden age of 70,s Sci Fi
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:08 PM   #25
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I don't want to rain on anyones parade here but I have to say that I was disappointed to see the items, and I wouldn't really call the 44" beak an original Eagle item. The original Eagle Beak was a Perspex moulding from a smooth basic egg-shaped master pattern, then all the window areas had to be cut out and built in, raised panels moulded and added, and sensor dishes cut out and added. Eagle 2's was a more simple fibreglass moulding taken from that - so what exactly is this one supposed to be, and why does it exist?

It seems at best that the un-named modelmaker, who appeared to like sci-fi and built Eagle, X-wing & tie fighter replicas, had access to a basic moulded shell and at his place of work (maybe an unused moulding) and decided to make himself a finished beak for his own Eagle build. That doesn't make it an 'original' item, and its not very good either with very poor detailing, nor does it look very much like the internal construction of the original. In the same way I'm currently making a Space Precinct Cruiser using a body casting from the original moulds (that actually contains all the original details) but that doesn't make it an original model, its still simply a replica.

I'm also baffled by the sensor domes in this Beak looking like those from Eagle 3 which was not built at Space Models?
It all seems a bit unclear to me about what this item actually is, and its a pity that we don't have more concrete details about who made it and why.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:08 PM   #26
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Thank you so much Mark 42 for taking the time to write and show your interest in my items. It is so nice that you have written so appreciatively about them. It is as though you were there with me when I was 9 seeing the items for the first time. I have had them for so long that I imagined people would be interested in looking at them instead of keeping them wrapped in a cupboard. They are not for sale, just to look at.
Anyway, I only joined 1 week ago and will not return again. Thanks once again. I would appreciate it if the photographs and thread could be removed. Take care, and thank you to everybody else that took time to write.
Kindest regards,
Mark...
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:13 AM   #27
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Brought back memories too, Darn, didn't get to see them, why you leaving mark harve?
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #28
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Probably cuz of Mark 42's post.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:11 PM   #29
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Well I'm sorry if I upset you Mark but my posting was simply my view-point and a logical questioning of what had been presented here for us to see and comment on. I was hoping it would not be considered offensive to query anything.

Luckily I have had the pleasure of seeing, sometimes handling, and sometimes owning, original items over the last 30 years and have also viewed many on this very website (and so have many other people here), and usually I can tell in the first few seconds if something is 'right'. You look at it and you just 'know' that it is the real deal. But when I looked at your 44" Eagle beak I just thought 'what is it?'

Again no offense to anyone but the fact is that we operate here on a matter of trust. Anyone of any age, sex, or country in the whole World can log in and claim to be anyone, have done anything, or own whatever.
I have had professional SFX people tell me that they worked on things when it was impossible for them to have done so, I have seen guests stand in front of sci-fi conventions telling stories of how they built and worked on projects that they simply didn't do, and several years ago we even had a young 19-year-old woman posting on here who was actually a 47-year-old bloke!!

So sorry if I have to question things - I mean I guess I was first baffled by your opening statement -
'He showed me drawings of a ship for an upcoming film called Star Wars and also models of the X-Wing and Darth Vader TIE fighter that he had built from scratch. I was not interested in that, mainly being amazed with his eagle'.

I mean that sounds interesting and impressive when you first read it, but when you think about it then it actually makes no sense at all. Upcoming film called 'Star Wars' means the event took place around 1977 (or 76) as I believe 'SW' came out in Britain January 1978. But all the SFX models were being designed and built at ILM in USA, so why would anyone at Space Models in England have drawings of them? Why would they have drawings at their home? Even more baffling how and why did the guy have the time or inclination to build himself replicas of both an X-Wing and a Tie Fighter for an unknown film he had not yet had the chance to see?
Sorry no offense again, you may just be mixing up several years of different memories into one single-sentence here. But I can't read your mind only what you have written on the screen in front of me, and to my experience it logically does not make sense.

Either way you aren't selling them and have enjoyed the items over the years, and some of the people on here thought they were nice too - so no real reason to get upset and walk off.

I question every single original item I have, I want to 'know' that it is original not simply believe that it is. My first original item was a computer panel from 'Space: 1999' that I got around 1990 - but I was never completely happy with it. It looked like it was supposed to, and logically it had to be real, but it wasn't until a friend spotted it in an episode 2-years-ago that it became real to me and I now love it. I guess that we are all different and some people seem happy to simply 'believe' and thats fine for them - but not me. So please don't get upset if I poke-and-prod and question, its just my way, no offence meant.
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Old 28-06-2013, 08:29 AM   #30
Darren Robertson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark42 View Post
Well I'm sorry if I upset you Mark but my posting was simply my view-point and a logical questioning of what had been presented here for us to see and comment on. I was hoping it would not be considered offensive to query anything.

Luckily I have had the pleasure of seeing, sometimes handling, and sometimes owning, original items over the last 30 years and have also viewed many on this very website (and so have many other people here), and usually I can tell in the first few seconds if something is 'right'. You look at it and you just 'know' that it is the real deal. But when I looked at your 44" Eagle beak I just thought 'what is it?'

Again no offense to anyone but the fact is that we operate here on a matter of trust. Anyone of any age, sex, or country in the whole World can log in and claim to be anyone, have done anything, or own whatever.
I have had professional SFX people tell me that they worked on things when it was impossible for them to have done so, I have seen guests stand in front of sci-fi conventions telling stories of how they built and worked on projects that they simply didn't do, and several years ago we even had a young 19-year-old woman posting on here who was actually a 47-year-old bloke!!

So sorry if I have to question things - I mean I guess I was first baffled by your opening statement -
'He showed me drawings of a ship for an upcoming film called Star Wars and also models of the X-Wing and Darth Vader TIE fighter that he had built from scratch. I was not interested in that, mainly being amazed with his eagle'.

I mean that sounds interesting and impressive when you first read it, but when you think about it then it actually makes no sense at all. Upcoming film called 'Star Wars' means the event took place around 1977 (or 76) as I believe 'SW' came out in Britain January 1978. But all the SFX models were being designed and built at ILM in USA, so why would anyone at Space Models in England have drawings of them? Why would they have drawings at their home? Even more baffling how and why did the guy have the time or inclination to build himself replicas of both an X-Wing and a Tie Fighter for an unknown film he had not yet had the chance to see?
Sorry no offense again, you may just be mixing up several years of different memories into one single-sentence here. But I can't read your mind only what you have written on the screen in front of me, and to my experience it logically does not make sense.

Either way you aren't selling them and have enjoyed the items over the years, and some of the people on here thought they were nice too - so no real reason to get upset and walk off.

I question every single original item I have, I want to 'know' that it is original not simply believe that it is. My first original item was a computer panel from 'Space: 1999' that I got around 1990 - but I was never completely happy with it. It looked like it was supposed to, and logically it had to be real, but it wasn't until a friend spotted it in an episode 2-years-ago that it became real to me and I now love it. I guess that we are all different and some people seem happy to simply 'believe' and thats fine for them - but not me. So please don't get upset if I poke-and-prod and question, its just my way, no offence meant.
And there is a classic example of why I have all but ceased posting on this wonderful forum...

Somebody who is lucky enough to own original props and only likes or dislikes them according to whether they can be proven to have been screen used.
What Mark 42 is actually saying here to everyone on this forum is that he owns a real screen used Eagle and somehow, we should all revere him and his opinion in some way, and that everything else that is being built on this forum is inferior. He will deny this, but the 'Perry Mason' way that he picked the poor guy's post to pieces shows clearly that he loved every minute of it!
And before you jump up and bluster, Mark, let me use the same childish justification that you did when you rode roughshod all over a new member's first thread: it's just my way, no offence meant.
Doesn't really make it all okay again does it?

The VAST majority of members here are impeccable, decent people and are a joy to know, but the poisonous words that I have received from some members here in both personal messages and emails have all but caused me to stop building and stop posting. Self important members who are literally incensed because I am building something that is not absolutely canon and made from the right materials. I am sick of these few people that guard every measurement or scrap of precious knowledge. The ones who help and support no one and criticise everything.
This is a great site and I will probably, sadly get banned for this but someone has to say something to redress the balance. Ultimately, Mark 42, you own some bits of plastic that were on the telly when we were kids. So what! It doesnt give you the right to attack other people's posts in the way you did.
You could have asked some questions, gotten him to clarify some points, been a little more respectful.....
The sad thing is that thanks to Mark 42's pontificating, the rest of us will not be able to even see the pictures and judge for ourselves.

So don't get upset if I poke and prod, Mark, it's just my way, no offence meant

Last edited by Darren Robertson; 28-06-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 28-06-2013, 09:23 AM   #31
Captain Sci-Fi
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Hi Gang,

I am a bit late to this party unfortunately.

Well this is a bit sad, how the heck did we manage to hold such an aggressive inquisition over these items?

I have read all the posts here from David Sisson and Mark Harve and I am a bit upset at the way Mark was treated. He must have felt like someone had raised a crusade against him and had to all intents had his goodwill in sharing his items with us been roughed up and challenged in such a way. What were we thinking??? I hope everyone who comes here is treated with an open hand and made to feel welcome, judging by the posts and the confrontational tone he was all but called a liar and scoundrel with contradiction and suspicion seeming to be the order of the day.

I will write to him and apologise but to be frank as Darren has pointed out, I doubt at this stage it will make any difference. I have a sense of loss over this.

I was unaware of Darren's issues, please PM me so I can discuss them with you mate.

Shameful guys, just shameful, think about how you are going to make the other guy feel BEFORE you post.
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Old 28-06-2013, 03:03 PM   #32
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We concur, Captain. Very well said...
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Old 28-06-2013, 03:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark42 View Post
I don't want to rain on anyones parade here but I have to say that I was disappointed to see the items, and I wouldn't really call the 44" beak an original Eagle item. The original Eagle Beak was a Perspex moulding from a smooth basic egg-shaped master pattern, then all the window areas had to be cut out and built in, raised panels moulded and added, and sensor dishes cut out and added. Eagle 2's was a more simple fibreglass moulding taken from that - so what exactly is this one supposed to be, and why does it exist?

It seems at best that the un-named modelmaker, who appeared to like sci-fi and built Eagle, X-wing & tie fighter replicas, had access to a basic moulded shell and at his place of work (maybe an unused moulding) and decided to make himself a finished beak for his own Eagle build. That doesn't make it an 'original' item, and its not very good either with very poor detailing, nor does it look very much like the internal construction of the original. In the same way I'm currently making a Space Precinct Cruiser using a body casting from the original moulds (that actually contains all the original details) but that doesn't make it an original model, its still simply a replica.

I'm also baffled by the sensor domes in this Beak looking like those from Eagle 3 which was not built at Space Models?
It all seems a bit unclear to me about what this item actually is, and its a pity that we don't have more concrete details about who made it and why.
Sorry to wade in here, but you have to consider David`s original post as per above. As I read it this is questioning the item but not offensive, indeed I remember first reading Mark`s response and being surprised that he was so offended. David does have an original, and is more qualified than many to comment on the items being discussed. I have some sympathy, having seen some awful replica puppets over the years and then been castigated for not gushing about how great they were....
I`ve known David for many years and he is a good bloke who loves the subject matter, that`s all.
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Old 28-06-2013, 06:07 PM   #34
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As Chris has mentioned, I could not find anything offensive in David's comments and I do not believe he is the type of person who goes out of his way to cause offence.

Several years ago David offered me some advice on a SHADO Mobile replica and during the conversation he said (and I am hoping he will not mind me mentioning this) that he was a 'nit-picking perfectionist'.

It is why his replicas are of such high quality.

Perhaps because of the fact he is a perfectionist, sometimes his comments may be misinterpreted by some people and cause them to take offence but remember not everyone can accept criticism, no matter how minor.

Hopefully Mark Harve will come back to the forum and re-post the images for those who missed them the first time around?

Surely of more concern are the emails and messages Darren has stated that he has received concerning his build.
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Old 28-06-2013, 06:38 PM   #35
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Sorry but gotta agree with Darren and Bernie,maybe its the way its put accross and if you know Mark 42 he probably doesnt mean any offence,but if you dont personally know him thats not how it reads.Anyway off for a pint,much more important lol.

Last edited by dazzo; 28-06-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 28-06-2013, 10:42 PM   #36
Darren Robertson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham N View Post
Surely of more concern are the emails and messages Darren has stated that he has received concerning his build.
Hi, Graham and thank you for your concern regarding my predicament.
Suffice to say that today has been a revelation to me in many positive ways and what I have learned is this: That no matter how loud a small minority choose to shout, it is up to me whether I choose to listen to them or not and I choose NOT to listen any longer. My build is finally getting back on track and I will be posting again soon.
Again, my sincere thanks to you.
Darren
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Old 29-06-2013, 08:43 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Robertson View Post
Hi, Graham and thank you for your concern regarding my predicament.
Suffice to say that today has been a revelation to me in many positive ways and what I have learned is this: That no matter how loud a small minority choose to shout, it is up to me whether I choose to listen to them or not and I choose NOT to listen any longer. My build is finally getting back on track and I will be posting again soon.
Again, my sincere thanks to you.
Darren
glad the build is continuing, I did wonder why I had not seen any updates for a while
I think your budget eagle is fantastic , well actually the other stuff you made on a budget
is just as good amazing work
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Old 30-06-2013, 03:31 AM   #38
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Darren, I've been following your build from the start, and I think it's amazing, and quite clever how you've resolved the inconsistencies between interior sets and model. I can't fathom why anyone would want to have a go at you for something as creative as your Eagle. Keep up the great work, it's been an inspiration to me.
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Old 30-06-2013, 09:14 AM   #39
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I've read though this now and I must admit I am surprised by the reaction of the original poster - it strikes me as someone being overly sensitive to a post that to me isn't rude but is questioning and wants to know more. Then again I've seen this sort of thing many times on forums where people seem to expect gushing praise for whatever it may be rather than a proper critical appraisal. Its unfortunate, but frankly life goes on.
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Old 30-06-2013, 08:05 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Robertson View Post
... but the poisonous words that I have received from some members here in both personal messages and emails have all but caused me to stop building and stop posting.
Hi Darren, I'm very sorry to hear that people have been attacking you so much, I didn't think such things happened on this forum, it always seems like a fairly quiet place. I hope that you can sort it out with Bernies assistance.

As for my posting I really didn't think it was being insulting, but the problem is that we are writing (sometimes wrongly) and reading things in our own way and not speaking the words - and you get so much from hearing someone say something, and importantly 'the way' they say it. I honestly wasn't setting out to offend him, neither was I enjoying it.

I do re-write my posts before submitting them, often many times to tone down any possible insult and make sure any facts I quote are right. I'll try to tone them down more in future as my last three posts have all been rather negetive - I keep thinking of the old story 'The Emperor's new clothes' where everyones gushing about how nice they are and I'm the kid in the corner saying 'But he's naked'.

(PS just to be clear I didn't think that Mark was trying to rip anyone off, just that his claim 'might' be in error.)
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