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Old 15-05-2015, 05:50 PM   #21
B.P. Taylor
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I guess you're supposed to feel flattered that they liked it enough to rip you off!
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Old 15-05-2015, 07:44 PM   #22
stingray48442
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what I did when I got ripped of by comet miniature's was to undercut him or gave an extra gift with the order . but enough people now know it is you design they should buy from you
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Old 16-05-2015, 10:42 AM   #23
S P Stewart
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Having had a look at the website they are producing all sorts of stuff, Space 1999, Dr who, Blakes 7. I wonder if they have a licence for any of these? Is this rga future were seeing here? Get your self a 3d printer then steal/plagiarise everyone else’s work.
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Old 17-05-2015, 05:34 AM   #24
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No message from Shapeways - I'll give them until Tuesday then go in a little heavy footed.

Thanks for your comments guys - I'll reply when I get a moment - gotta get to work now, Sunday 6.30a.m. urgh!
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Old 18-05-2015, 10:14 PM   #25
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This sucks howard, if you need any help with anything just drop me a pm
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Old 18-05-2015, 10:47 PM   #26
B.P. Taylor
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He is definitely getting a percentage of each one he sells and Shapeways gets the rest. I don't really think it would be in Shapeways' interest to clamp down on this sort of activity. Good luck though. What bothers me most is he seems to be claiming credit for the designs.
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Old 19-05-2015, 08:05 AM   #27
paulears
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I'm an occasional reader, but as the forum said happy birthday today, I've spent a while reading around and came across this post.

In my job, I have to clear copyright and it's tricky - BUT - the law in this case is clearly on your side. There are lots of myths about copyright. The most important thing is that it is well protected by the Designs and Copyright Act - and you can make a claim online, much like seeking a county court judgement.

First fact - you have to do NOTHING to create the copyright. It exists as soon as you produce your first design - so the plan itself is covered, the production of a physical artefact, as in a model is 'extra'. The right is yours, and you can give it away if you wish, but until you do it is yours. In court, the judge will consider the evidence. In your case, it will be the publication of it in that magazine - something datable. The only doubt would be if the judge was unable to see the link between the object you are complaining about, and yours. Plans, are typically tricky because not everyone can read a plan! However, photographs are different.

The usual guidelines suggest you simply need to be solid on the accuracy of your claim, have the right evidence to prove it on the balance of probability (not beyond reasonable doubt, as in criminal cases). The other party gets a chance to settle out of court first, and you are expected to negotiate before getting to court. Sensible people who are uncertain of the provenance of their dodgy product will usually make you an official offer. You can accept or reject. Then it goes before the court. It is used frequently by people like Getty Images, who police their photographs on the internet with zeal. Plenty of case law showing a decent success rate, and compensation.

If they are making money, even small amounts, it's worth doing.

I'm not a legal expert by any means, and it's taken me a long time to be reasonably comfortable with copyright - but you seem on solid ground.

The only real argument would be if the file they used to produce it has become so widely copied that reasonable effort couldn't track down the owner. In this case, as you say, Google finds the info very quickly.

If you google you can find some advice to the people accused of infringement, and basically it advises them to seek a workable agreement with the copyright owner. It is actually saying - ok, you are guilty, so be nice and agree on a nice figure to avoid court action.

The fact they have not responded is extra evidence for the court that you have been reasonable. next step is to inform them you intend to use the system. It's not even expensive and you get back your fees when you win, just like county court small claims. You don't need a solicitor, and apart from paperwork and time - it's worth pressing for a judgement.

My job means I try to track down these owners (mainly music in my case) and get permission. Sometimes they charge peanuts and say yes. Other people simply say no. For music most people use an agency (PRS and PPL) but not everyone is a member. For models, as far as I know, you're on your own!

For what it's worth, the photographer will almost certainly think they own the copyright to the image, and get a thank you - which rather proves they do know what rights actually are. Thanking the photographer for the pictures does rather recognise copyright isn't totally misunderstood!

There was a recent court case where somebody had removed the watermark on a series of photos used on the net without permission - the judge considered this removal the proof they knew the images were copyright, understood the implications and was therefore a flagrant abuse of the rights - and the compensation was VERY high. Best of luck, don't let them get away with it. Although legally it's not theft, it feels like it!
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Old 21-05-2015, 04:43 PM   #28
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Paulears, many many thanks for your posting.
I actually copyrighted the design (sans CM) when it was completed. This registration expired late last year. I thought nothing of it (fool me) and did not extend the UK copyright service documentation.
I will now do so.
I will also contact Shapeways again as I have not received a reply.

Just to set things straight.
If the guy had contacted me and asked for a business agreement regarding the usage of my design, I would have come to an agreement with him.
I understand that drawing up the design in a CAD programme is not easy, but saying that, far easier than designing the vehicle from the ground up, and then building it as a physical model.

I will update this thread with whatever comes my way. But be assured, I will not rest until I have pursued every avenue of legal recourse to claim that design as my own, and that my intellectual rights have been ignored by the seller, and shapeways.
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Old 21-05-2015, 05:01 PM   #29
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I've just sent shapeways this second message:

This is my second email to you regarding this product.
I own the copyright to this design - it was featured in and on the cover of issue 15 of Sci-Fi and fantasy modeller magazine:
http://www.scififantasymodeller.co.uk/English/shop.php
The design was copyrighted on page 25 of the magazine.
The design is featured on my deviantart page, user name:
HSWatts:
http://hswatts.deviantart.com/galler...e-1999-Kestrel
Offering this product is a breach of my intellectual copyright.
I await your reply.
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Old 21-05-2015, 10:30 PM   #30
paulears
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You have got the copyright 'status' a bit confused. In the UK, the Designs and Patents Act is the legislation - and you don't need to register it with anyone because it automatically exists as soon as you produced it. Not sure who you 'registered' it with, but it's probably one of the agencies who just keep a record of the date of conception. Their service can expire, but the copyright keeps going even after your death. As I said - it's your idea, your work and your property. The only thing good about these agencies is they are a third party proof of the idea. If it got to court, you simply need evidence that you thought of it first. For many years people sent themselves plans or products in the post, recorded delivery, and then kept the dated package unopened.

There was a rumour going around that this system had failed in court, but the reality is that this system is actually pretty foolproof, the failure was due to the contents being poorly prepared.

Forensic science would enable the court to prove the envelope had not been opened and resealed - that technology is now available. If somebody, like your example, claimed the design was theirs, then you could in court show the sealed and dated and signed for parcel, and offer it as proof you produced the idea first - using the date as your guide. The other side would be advised that if their product was indeed detailed in your envelope, then they should not proceed, because you have caught them out. If they persisted, then this is when the parcel would be tested and the contents given to the court. The dangerous part would be if the judge perhaps couldn't read the plan, or saw differences. In music, a blatant copy could be missed by the judge, and the case gets thrown out - and this is where the rumour about the send it to yourself trick being useless comes from.

It's a very simple method of dating contents.

You can register trademarks with a trademark agency, but this is not the case here.

Your magazine article is the proof your design existed - ideal because it's dated and presumably shows the product in detail.

Did you make the cad file yourself? If so, then they may have also infringed your copyright on that too?

If they produced the cad file, then that will also be dated after your magazine.

The registration you are about to do - what are they offering for the money? Legal action, advice and assistance? I'm just not certain there is any value in it. Your copyright has not expired so don't worry. You have a lot of time.

One warning - don't forget that if you based your design on another, and there are any common features you built in, then that original will have copyright. This could be the thing they identify as a counter argument?

The front of the Kestrel has similarities to the eagle design, but it is not exactly the same - the proportion and curvature is different, and this would be something you could use to support your design.

Like everything else - before taking legal action satisfy yourself they actually have the money in the bank. Nom point suing them if they have no assets.

Last edited by paulears; 21-05-2015 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 22-05-2015, 07:05 AM   #31
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I didn't write the cad file.
When I registered the design, I omitted the CM as this was part of the Eagle. Okay, it could be argued the engine bells and spine are also. I pretty much covered in the article the design was based on the Eagle.
It's a bit of a giveaway the seller hasn't even bothered to change the name of the ship.

Thanks for the info, Paulears - it's made things much clearer.

I contacted the seller on shapeways, asking for more info concerning the 'magazine from the 70s' the model was featured in.
This is their reply:

The only information I have, is that which I found online. I remember the actual magazine cover, but that was back in the late 70s. I am unsure where you could find a copy some 40 yrs later.

Sorry, wish I could help more.
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Old 19-10-2015, 04:01 PM   #32
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Update.
I FINALLY got around to contacting the seller - expressing my concerns and offering to talk about a 'deal' regarding the selling of the product.
The seller did not want to talk, so the design has now been removed by them.
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Old 19-10-2015, 10:17 PM   #33
Slate Mcleod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard View Post
Update.
I FINALLY got around to contacting the seller - expressing my concerns and offering to talk about a 'deal' regarding the selling of the product.
The seller did not want to talk, so the design has now been removed by them.
Keep an eye on Shapeways Howard, the likelyhood is he will just re-upload and call it something else, knowing full well it will take you months to get another complaint resolved. It's hard to win against this mentality of people who don't give a f**k sadly.
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Old 16-12-2015, 09:17 AM   #34
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My heart goes out to you Howard, how typical.
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