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Old 30-03-2008, 03:17 PM   #21
T70MkIII
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PE did a chrome version of the eagle that's not that good. If you want raw, I'd leave it matt, then it would really look like a prototype or a newly finished effort before painting. That would be cool. Perhaps do two... one painted one not. Please post pictures as it comes together, it will be great to see.
The more I think about it I agree about matt. Unfortunately, the more I think about the more I also agree about making 2 - some of the FDW painted and weathered 44s I've come across (almost ) make it a hard choice between authentic and prototype (if I may coin that term in this context). Certainly, not going for all aluminium would make the detail work far easier. I guess some styrene detail parts could be purchased and painted aluminium, but it would take away from the uniqueness of the project
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Old 30-03-2008, 03:48 PM   #22
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Well, if you can pull it off, it'll look impressive but I wouldn't want to tackle it. I find studio replicas of the thing taxing enough.
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Old 30-03-2008, 07:51 PM   #23
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Old 31-03-2008, 10:24 AM   #24
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OK, this is a post i did not want to make...
... but the amount of K/S brass tubing that i have chewed up has got me almost ready to use my dremel on my forehead!

I have been having some real problems drilling the tubing to make the matching curves to put the cages together... Is there a trick to doing this? Im working with small tubes (cause im building a 22'') and have not gotten anywhere.

Was hoping to post pics by now... but i dont have heart to right now
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Old 31-03-2008, 10:30 AM   #25
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K&S is fine for a 22". How exactly are you trying to shape the ends? Presumably you are holding the tube in some kind of clamp or vise? If you are, have you added the drilled hardwood jaws?

http://www.eagletransporter.com/foru...54&postcount=5
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Old 31-03-2008, 10:50 AM   #26
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K&S is fine for a 22". How exactly are you trying to shape the ends? Presumably you are holding the tube in some kind of clamp or vise? If you are, have you added the drilled hardwood jaws?
Thanks for the fast reply DX.. Have you a wireless neural connection to the site? If so, where do I get one?

I do know know about the hardwood jaws. The way I tried was I wrapped the tube with masking tape, and placed it in a drilling vice, just a normal one, used with a drill press. My idea was to center drill a pilot hole, and then step up, then cut it off...

That was the idea.. So far, no success.

I followed the link you provided DX, looks good, but none of the pics came up?

Love to see what a hardwoord drilling jaws look like. Cause I wat to start on the filling of the tubes and silver soldering side...

(which Im sure I will sux at too, at which point, I will detonate my account on the board, and never talk to any of you again cause of the shame!)

^^^^ is a joke... I just think I might end up with a Alan Carter special Eagle, you know, the one with the twisted spine!
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Old 31-03-2008, 11:53 AM   #27
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These photos take ages to load. Click on the thread and go make a cuppa. They should be loaded by then and a really well worth the look. Jon makes it all look so simple. Sickening, but most impressive.
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Old 31-03-2008, 02:47 PM   #28
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My idea was to center drill a pilot hole, and then step up, then cut it off...
By 'centre drill a pilot hole' do you mean drill a pilot hole, or are you actually using the specific engineering drill bit called a centre drill?

You should be ok if you centre punch where you want the hole, then use a centre drill (eBay search will bring this up for you) and then use the final size bit at a slowish speed. The reason for using a centre bit to start the hole is that normal bits WILL wander causing wailing and the gnashing of teeth.

Use some tapping compound or WD40 or light oil to lubricate the bit if you need to - I'm not sure what is best for brass but others can chime in here or have a Google at some of the model engineering sites. It's late over here - if you have no joy I'll try and find some info to post for you tomorrow.
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Old 31-03-2008, 03:04 PM   #29
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Well, if you can pull it off, it'll look impressive but I wouldn't want to tackle it. I find studio replicas of the thing taxing enough.
I guess not having built a large eagle before but having done some other engineering stuff I don't really know what I'm letting myself in for. But a different approach may not be any harder at all. The amount of detail you put into painting and weathering a studio replica looks seriously daunting to me - my proposed prototype eagle would have to be decaled, but not otherwise painted or weathered. Much less scary a prospect to me. Not that that's my reason for wanting to do an all Al eagle.

If I start with an all Al spine and cages I can work step by step from there and see how far I get before conceding defeat.

Last edited by T70MkIII; 31-03-2008 at 03:05 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 31-03-2008, 04:19 PM   #30
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OK, from experience, you stand no chance of drilling the ends exactly without a very rigid set up. You won't do it with a centre drill or a drill bit because both will snatch as they catch one side of the tube end. You need a (preferably new) slot drill or milling cutter used on a milling machine. On the assumption you don't have a milling machine, you have two, options.

1. You need to cut the brass to length and then round off the ends with a suitable rat tail file. Tedious but doable. A large disk sander is helpful both to get all the brass tubes finished the same length and too roughly shape the ends for final finishing with a file.

2. There is a way to rough machine the pieces using a drill jig but the jig needs making accurately on engineering equipment. It consists of a small length of square steel, say 3/4" by 3/4" and 2" long. Drill 1/8" (or whatever size of tube you want to drill) all the way through the steel from one end to the other in a lathe using a four jaw chuck. Now drill a 3mm hole 1" from the end through the block passing at right angles directly and accurately through the centre of your previously lathe drilled hole. The intention is to slide in your 1/8" tube and drill through it using a 3mm drill so that the tube isn't quite separated by the drill bit and the ends don't part and catch in the flutes of the drill. You will still need to dress the ends with a 1/8" round file but at least you'll be most of the way there. On this occasion, a centre drill might give better results than a standard drill bit. You need to lock the tube in place while drilling it so you want to drill and tap a second hole near the end of the block (M3) so you can add a machine screw to secure the tube in the jig to stop it from shifting or twisting.

Be warned though, K&S is very thin walled and quite soft. It crushes easily so don't force anything. It's also worth considering that at 22" size, the solder will fill minor irregularities and form neat fillets so perfection is not required. Depending on your personal standards of acceptability, some of the joints, particularly the diagonals, only need to be dressed using a sander with maybe just a stroke or two from the file to get a good fit.


Last edited by DX-SFX; 31-03-2008 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 31-03-2008, 05:25 PM   #31
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Yes I'm a cut to the right length and then file the edges to match person. As DX says the solder helps by filling minor imperfections.
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Old 31-03-2008, 09:43 PM   #32
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That's what I'll be doing...and a lesson from DX on how to solder neatly will hopefully see me on my way
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Old 31-03-2008, 11:32 PM   #33
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That's what I'll be doing...and a lesson from DX on how to solder neatly will hopefully see me on my way
That's scheduled in Chris.
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Old 01-04-2008, 02:22 AM   #34
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OK, from experience, you stand no chance of drilling the ends exactly without a very rigid set up. You won't do it with a centre drill or a drill bit because both will snatch as they catch one side of the tube end.
Fair enough - sorry for the misdirection; brass is not my forte!

Chris, could you use an end mill in a drill press with good bearings, and feed the brass into it using a cross-slide vice? I have a mill, but just trying to think of lowish budget options for others. I would think that filing is probably the best option if you are planning to make only 1.
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Old 01-04-2008, 08:41 AM   #35
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You've got the same problem of the edge catching and snatching because of the width of the cutting edge when pushing the tube into the side of the cutter. Plunge cutting (as if it were a drill bit) helps but expect the odd snatch. Believe it or not, there's probably less work and time involved filing the bits than setting them in a jig each time. If your pillar drill has a drill chuck and you're thinking of putting the end mill in the chuck, straight away it's less rigid because the cutter is sticking out further from the bearings. It's like trying to turn a piece of metal on a lathe at the tailstock end away from the headstock bearings for in principle, you're asking your pillar drill to act like a lathe turned vertically. In this case the tool rotates and the workpiece is offered up to the tool but the problems of chatter and metal cutting still apply. The problem is it takes less effort to bend the metal than it does to resist the cutting action of a cut that's slightly too big and without the set up being absolutely rigid, you can't accurately control the depth of cut.

You can try abrading the ends of the tube a number of ways. I went to the trouble of making a reciprocating filing machine for my 44" and although it worked and I used it, it wasn't worth the time and effort. I also experimented with large diameter grinding wheels with the edges rounded off by a diamond dresser. Again it worked but not worth the effort for a 22" model.

For the equipment you appear to have, the drilling jig I outlined is probably your best bet.

Having said all that, necessity is the father of invention and I wouldn't dissuade anyone from experimenting a bit. Just be prepared to end up filing the bits eventually.
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:51 AM   #36
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I see what your getting at DX... I borrowed my friends Sherline Mill, and tried using a cutter, but due to the thinnest of the brass, it tore it apart.. I tried a few times, and out of five attempts, only two kinda worked, but needed major clean up...

OK... I thin I need to fin some good files...

Just one other quick question. Could you use a dremel and a grinding it to remove the bulk of the stock, and then clean it up with a file, or do you think its faster just filing all the ends from the beginning?
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Old 01-04-2008, 10:08 AM   #37
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For a 22", just file it. You can get cheap sets or rat tail files in most tool shops. It's not like it's a hard material to work or there's lots of material to remove. You'll probably invent your own little techniques for speeding things up as you do it.

I do make use of a Dremel but in a different context. I use the grinder/cutter discs to chop brass tube up. I use the older flexible drive shaft (the one with the tubular hand grip, not the contoured one) mounted in an aluminium block hinged at one end so it moves in a guillotine action. The whole lots is mounted on a wooden bread board. Think one of these Chopper boards for cutting styrene strip but the Dremel cutting disk taking the place of the razor blade.

Last edited by DX-SFX; 01-04-2008 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:08 AM   #38
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That's a great idea. I have one of the older flexible dremel attachments here.
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