Iconic Replicas Thunderbirds 'replicas' sum up

[Richard Baker]

The pure irony of officially licensed replicas being based on 'grey area' garage kits- and badly at that.

It makes you rethink the whole concept of professionals (with international resources) VS the common folk (in basements).
If you CARE about what you are doing it makes a world of difference.

.

[DX-SFX]

Originally Posted by RCnut

Dont know if anyone knew but the PE diecast Skydiver is a direct lift from Teru Yamadas popcorn kit.

What a great company IR are.

[Knight1966]

A little while back last year when Moebius announced the Seaveiw I started a dialogue with Frank Winspur with regard to Moebius producing large scale Anderson PI kits and he was certainly intrigued and open to listen to suggestions, and given the finished Seaveiw they've given us maybe a few more e-mails from folks here might help persuade them there's a viable market, so get to it guys, I seem to recall posting a thread at the time with Franks encouraging responses, can't find it at present though.

Perhaps with some healthy competition PE/IR might pull their socks up, case in point, their £400.00 Monsters in motion (right down to originally copying the incorrectly angled lower tailplanes) rip off Seaveiw at 24" vs Moebius totally accurate 39" RC convertable IP beauty coming in at £79.00, I collect mine next week.

[DX-SFX]

Is any of their product not ripped from someone else's?

[Knight1966]

Here's my original email and Franks response......

Thanks, it is something we have thought about. I know the old AMT release still brings good money when they show up, so there are plenty of fans. Nothing on the list for the Eagle at this time, but you never know what will happen. A few things we want to try and get out first, but it is on our minds! Thanks again, Frank.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: knight_1966
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:28 PM
To: customerservice@moebiusmodels.com
Subject: On a slightly different note


Hi Frank
Just something for the think tank

If I might bring your attention to this, re the (22"+ 44") Eagle Transporters primarily but all subjects mentioned generally http://www.eagletransporter.com/foru...ead.php?t=3314

Obviously you're tied up and have your hands full with getting Seaveiw produced for the moment but I think this subject would be well worth investigating. The site is an UK offshoot of SM and dedicated to Gerry Anderson craft from all his various shows.

I don't know how familiar you are with his shows but there is a huge fan base, crying out for 'accurate' studio scale kits which to date are only available as high end (highly priced) finished replica's or resin/fiber glass 'garage' kits. It's just my humble opinion but the runaway success of the Polar Lights 350 Enterprise and the massive interest Seaveiw is generating clearly shows there is an as yet untapped market out there for the right company with the means to meet demand.
Any company willing to take on producing affordable Injection plastic studio scale kits is on to a sure winner.

I appreciate there would be licensing issues etc etc but I'm sure you have people that could look into that.

Many of the members at Eagletransporter work or have worked in the movie industry on the miniature effects side and can offer invaluable advice.

[Knight1966]

Originally Posted by DX-SFX

Is any of their product not ripped from someone else's?

Not certain but I think I heard somewhere their 1st 6" Daleks where copied from the old sevens kit by Comet

[Slate Mcleod]

Originally Posted by Knight1966

Not certain but I think I heard somewhere their 1st 6" Daleks where copied from the old sevens kit by Comet

Correct. And the 12 inch radio control versions were direct rips from the old SEVANS foot high kit.

Slate

[Bishop]

Its beginning to sound like IR means Iconic replicas of someone else's kit? I'm sure things will start to come together since this mess with the Lab pod. The lessons will surely have been learned.

[Knight1966]

Originally Posted by Tony42

Its beginning to sound like IR means Iconic replicas of someone else's kit? I'm sure things will start to come together since this mess with the Lab pod. The lessons will surely have been learned.

You'd think wouldn't ya? but if there's one thing I've learnt, from working with the French and that is, that nothing is gauranteed no matter how obvious you may think something is and take nothing for granted.



apologies if talking cobblers, written after 19 hour shift at 2am,,,,,night all.....

[Slate Mcleod]

Originally Posted by Knight1966

You'd think wouldn't ya? but if there's one thing I've learnt, from working with the French and that is, that nothing is gauranteed no matter how obvious you may think something is and take nothing for granted.



apologies if talking cobblers, written after 19 hour shift at 2am,,,,,night all.....

Well...not sure where the French reference came from mate but I certainly understand your point! IR now need to prove their worth again after a number of disasters. I hope they go back to what they were good at which was producing amazing die-casts. They should leave the big-boys world of true replicas to people like Uncle Bill and Mr Sissons.

Slate

[Name changed by request]

Sorry, but IR are just getting worse. Look at theide Captain Scarlet puppet! The flesh tones on it has come from about 15 bottles of humbrol paint splashed on. The head has no facial expressions - oh it does have one, implying "Why on earth did I have a terribly-gone-wrong facelift"!

I had great hopes for PE/IR - then again I had great hopes for the Thunderbirds Movie, and that ended up between a mixture of Pantomime and Crossroads Motel! bInstead of the indestructible Scarlet we get..........Benny!

[Knight1966]

Originally Posted by Slate Mcleod

Well...not sure where the French reference came from mate but I certainly understand your point! IR now need to prove their worth again after a number of disasters. I hope they go back to what they were good at which was producing amazing die-casts. They should leave the big-boys world of true replicas to people like Uncle Bill and Mr Sissons.

Slate

Ref comes from Tony42's comment re 'lessons should be learnt' and my answer that,'You'd think so', at work I'm the only English guy in a workplace of French and what you would assume to be normal (here in UK) ie learning from mistakes or not doing/doing the obvious is not always a dead cert

[Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted by Slate Mcleod

Well...not sure where the French reference came from mate but I certainly understand your point! IR now need to prove their worth again after a number of disasters. I hope they go back to what they were good at which was producing amazing die-casts. They should leave the big-boys world of true replicas to people like Uncle Bill and Mr Sissons.

Slate

IMHO they started losing the plot before they abandoned the die-cast range. Their Supercar, Fireball, Stingray and Eagle are all little gems for sure, but the SPV looks all wrong from some angles and as for the "weathering" on some models...

In IR's defence, many of the original production shooting models looked more than a little ropey up close. It's nigh-on impossible to achieve a definitive representation of virtually any Anderson craft (or many from other productions - flameproof undies time!!) due to the numerous inconsistencies between models. This is how I console myself when I find myself picking faults in the IR FAB 1.

[Spacecraft Guy]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

IMHO they started losing the plot before they abandoned the die-cast range. Their Supercar, Fireball, Stingray and Eagle are all little gems for sure, but the SPV looks all wrong from some angles and as for the "weathering" on some models...

In IR's defence, many of the original production shooting models looked more than a little ropey up close. It's nigh-on impossible to achieve a definitive representation of virtually any Anderson craft (or many from other productions - flameproof undies time!!) due to the numerous inconsistencies between models. This is how I console myself when I find myself picking faults in the IR FAB 1.

I'm not sure that I agree here that obtaining a "definitive representation" would be impossible.

In one of the Japanese sourced Thunderbirds books I have, there are blueprints of 3 versions of Thunderbird 2, showing the slightly different contours of each model and the different Hull lettering and graphics.

I think that it would be acceptable if the manufacturer stated that the model was based on the craft as it appeared in one specific sequence - the opening credits of Thunderbirds, for example.

The models of the Eagle still exist - and with the permission of their owners could be laser scanned. David Sisson owns one and has made replicas of the majority of the Anderson craft that most agree would be acceptable as the basis for a model.

Here's hoping that another company will decide to take another shot at the license for
the smaller scale die-cast versions of the Anderson craft.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted by Spacecraft Guy

I'm not sure that I agree here that obtaining a "definitive representation" would be impossible.

But would it be affordable? We've seen some of the best-ever SF model kits coming out of China in recent years, but these have been of subjects like Star Trek that the makers know they will shift by the truckload. These kits are both super-accurate and well-engineered. By contrast, Iconic Replicas seem doomed to mass-produce their ready-assembled large-scale models in what appear to be rather garage-like conditions.

However, just ask yourself what the unit cost of these "replicas" actually is. Also, considering where they're made, there is the danger of illicit, but similar quality, bootleg copies emerging. Copyright means virtually nothing in China, even the big-name stores there often get caught out.

[Knight1966]

Well looks like someones listening and Frank (post 7 in link below) still isn't ruling anything out.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=218443

[Bishop]

Here's an interesting question. Could Granada ever take the licence from IR because of quality issues? They'd better be careful if this latest balls up (dud lab pod eagles being sent without their nose cones.... they can't even get the dud ones right ) is any indication of what's still in store.

[Spacecraft Guy]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

But would it be affordable? We've seen some of the best-ever SF model kits coming out of China in recent years, but these have been of subjects like Star Trek that the makers know they will shift by the truckload. These kits are both super-accurate and well-engineered. By contrast, Iconic Replicas seem doomed to mass-produce their ready-assembled large-scale models in what appear to be rather garage-like conditions.

However, just ask yourself what the unit cost of these "replicas" actually is. Also, considering where they're made, there is the danger of illicit, but similar quality, bootleg copies emerging. Copyright means virtually nothing in China, even the big-name stores there often get caught out.

An accurate, larger scale model of an Anderson craft certainly could be affordable. The interviews with the head of PE about the die-cast Anderson craft that I've read had him state that the market would not support a large run of any of the Anderson craft, but I think that Moebius Models is proving them wrong with their Irwin Allen models. The AMT/Ertl models of the Enterprise were on the market for decades (and are coming back again), but Polar Lights decided to produce more accurate models of the same subject and did well.

I have no doubt that the unit cost of each IR large scale model is a very low percentage of what the retail price is.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted by Spacecraft Guy

An accurate, larger scale model of an Anderson craft certainly could be affordable. The interviews with the head of PE about the die-cast Anderson craft that I've read had him state that the market would not support a large run of any of the Anderson craft, but I think that Moebius Models is proving them wrong with their Irwin Allen models. The AMT/Ertl models of the Enterprise were on the market for decades (and are coming back again), but Polar Lights decided to produce more accurate models of the same subject and did well.

I may well get the Moebius Seaview if I can figure out where on earth I'd put it once it was built - it'd probably end up gathering dust with the Polar Lights 1:350 Enterprise kit TBH!

Now, ISTR Polar Lights being part of a larger concern who decided to pull the plug. From what I've seen of their kits, their quality was impeccable. But did they succeed in recouping their outlay? One of the best short-run kits I've had was the Comet Miniatures Liberator from Blake's 7* about 20 years ago. Once again this was a high-quality kit, its only true downfall was that it was way too small. I vaguely remember reading someplace that this kit nearly bankrupted Tony James who pretty much pulled out of the kit-producing market to concentrate on selling other peoples' wares instead.

I just hope that Moebius can allay my fears to go on to give us the kits some of us have waited for over half a lifetime before market forces take their toll.

*BTW, resurrecting the suspicions of plagiarism - I've built the Titan Find Liberator model which I'm very happy with in all but one department, namely the decals. The decals supplied are reasonably accurate except that they are too big for the scale of the model. My memory may be playing tricks on me, but the decal sheet seems to look awfully like the one I recall from Comet's old kit.

I ended up making my own decals to the correct scale using the PDF file from Titan Find's website, but that's another story.

[akoenig]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I just hope that Moebius can allay my fears to go on to give us the kits some of us have waited for over half a lifetime before market forces take their toll.

Man, you NAILED it. Minority trends imply minority markets. Now, then and always. It hurts, but it's law.