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Old 29-08-2008, 10:09 AM   #21
Bishop
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Just as the US rightly expects people to respect its boarders in this regard. So Russia wants the same. It has been invaded three times in the last 200 years so yes its understandable. It would be much more helpful on the part of all concerned in the conflict to actually work things out. I'm sure Georgia doesn't want to be dismembered either. If these provinces want to be part of Russia then there must be a way to sort it out rather than everyone blowing everyone else up. You think we'd learn. But as has been said, war is good for business and for population control and so forth. And yes there are those out there that would happily take everyone else down with them if they couldn't get their way.

Hopefully everyone will have a better weekend and see some more sense by Monday. No one will win the next one.... it could well be the war to end all wars... I doubt Einstein's WW IV with sticks and stones would ever eventuate


Or is this actually the rise of the machines or something
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Old 29-08-2008, 10:18 AM   #22
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You also have to remember that in the sixties there would be some warning if things were building because the equipment was so large and took time to set up. Modern equipment can be flown in and deployed in less than a day. The US and the West may not have any designs on invading Russian territory but the Russians don't want the threat hanging over them anymore than the US wanted the threat of missiles pointed at them.
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Old 29-08-2008, 10:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony42 View Post
Just as the US rightly expects people to respect its boarders in this regard. So Russia wants the same. It has been invaded three times in the last 200 years so yes its understandable. It would be much more helpful on the part of all concerned in the conflict to actually work things out. I'm sure Georgia doesn't want to be dismembered either. If these provinces want to be part of Russia then there must be a way to sort it out rather than everyone blowing everyone else up. You think we'd learn. But as has been said, war is good for business and for population control and so forth. And yes there are those out there that would happily take everyone else down with them if they couldn't get their way.

Hopefully everyone will have a better weekend and see some more sense by Monday. No one will win the next one.... it could well be the war to end all wars... I doubt Einstein's WW IV with sticks and stones would ever eventuate


Or is this actually the rise of the machines or something
Thanks for tha Tony. Really cheered me up there.
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Old 29-08-2008, 12:48 PM   #24
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Hey no probs
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Old 29-08-2008, 01:25 PM   #25
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Siting US missiles in Poland (or Ukraine) is purely and simply provocative. The US maintain they wouldn't be aimed at Russia, but why should the Russians be expected to believe that. As DX says, the US sure took exception to the threat of Soviet missiles in Cuba. And that nearly ended up in WWIII!

After the cold war you would think NATO/US would just be glad it was over. By encroaching so far east it is almost rubbing the Russians' faces into it, showing them they had "lost". Far better just to let things be without trying to provoke anyone!

Keith
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Old 29-08-2008, 03:18 PM   #26
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Some very salient points made, particularly DX's and Saturn Apollos as usual. Modern warfare has changed dramatically over the last ten years ( "hot strikes " being the latest fad in military thinking). And Tony, you're a bit prescient there. My brother in law and I were discussing Skynet (it actual exists!!! ) as he works in the com tec side of the RAF, about five weeks ago, before he went out on a tour of duty abroad (real, not the game!). It does make you think, and ocassionally shiver.
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Old 30-08-2008, 02:53 AM   #27
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It should be pointed out that the missiles to be based in Poland are interceptor missiles, not nuclear tipped ICBMs. And there is a threat from Iran to everyone. They are working on both missiles, and nuclear weapons, plus are ruled by a two faced mad man who has stated on more than one occasion he wants to destroy Israel and the west. Given the nut jobs in that part of the world, I do not think that is unreasonable. And given the rise of the all new and improved USSR and Putin's belligerence I think even more these are needed. If Putin has nothing to hide, what is the problem? As long as people look the other way and blame everyone but the main problem, you have another Hitler on the rise. Beware.
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Old 30-08-2008, 03:41 AM   #28
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That sadly is always the reality in every age, be it a Caesar or Tsar, Bonapart or Fuhrer, there will always be someone somewhere who forgets the past and has another go at trying to ruling the world.

Personally I think getting the Russians to cover their flank in the Middle East would be a better idea than trying to do it for them, I am not however, unaware of the potential in the present leadership (of any country sadly) How we get the right balance in all these things is anyone's guess. I just wish they'd all wake up and work together so we could do exciting things like solve the world's problems and boldly go where no man has been before and all that stuff. The stuff of dreams of course.
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Old 30-08-2008, 09:03 AM   #29
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I should point out that Poland was only mentioned as the example of Russia's sensitivity after WWII. We're actually talking about Georgia which is a completey different territory in case there's any confusion.
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Old 30-08-2008, 01:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Smith View Post
It should be pointed out that the missiles to be based in Poland are interceptor missiles, not nuclear tipped ICBMs. And there is a threat from Iran to everyone. They are working on both missiles, and nuclear weapons, plus are ruled by a two faced mad man who has stated on more than one occasion he wants to destroy Israel and the west. Given the nut jobs in that part of the world, I do not think that is unreasonable. And given the rise of the all new and improved USSR and Putin's belligerence I think even more these are needed. If Putin has nothing to hide, what is the problem? As long as people look the other way and blame everyone but the main problem, you have another Hitler on the rise. Beware.
The following is relevant to the comments by Tim Smith:

New missile stand off.....

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...26714&src=news

Last edited by eurosector; 30-08-2008 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 30-08-2008, 07:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony42 View Post
That sadly is always the reality in every age, be it a Caesar or Tsar, Bonapart or Fuhrer, there will always be someone somewhere who forgets the past and has another go at trying to ruling the world.

Personally I think getting the Russians to cover their flank in the Middle East would be a better idea than trying to do it for them, I am not however, unaware of the potential in the present leadership (of any country sadly) How we get the right balance in all these things is anyone's guess. I just wish they'd all wake up and work together so we could do exciting things like solve the world's problems and boldly go where no man has been before and all that stuff. The stuff of dreams of course.
So true. Too bad we don't apply that energy and just a portion of the money to space exploration. People will have disagreements, no getting around that; I realized long ago everyone else but me was wrong.
But the whole ruling the world thing, sadly this world will never be free of those.
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Old 30-08-2008, 10:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Too bad we don't apply that energy and just a portion of the money to space exploration.
Not to mention the people. I met some of the best, brightest, most highly motivated people I've ever known in the armed forces. What a shame those qualities can't be channeled into a more benign (but equally challenging) endeavour.

Unfortunately, I can't see the world disbanding its armies any time soon.
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Old 31-08-2008, 06:45 PM   #33
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Well this situation, as it should, might extend the shuttles life.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,3449221.story
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:39 PM   #34
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If you're mentioning the Cuban Missile Crisis, while I'm not defending the USSR's actions then, you do have to remember that the US did have nukes deployed in Turkey at that time, so the Soviets were rightfully a bit ticked off at that.
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
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What a shame those qualities can't be channeled into a more benign (but equally challenging) endeavour.
Yeah, like a Terrahawks Organisation or something cool...
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:13 PM   #36
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Eh, International Rescue?
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