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Old 13-12-2006, 11:12 PM   #61
Elric
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JericoEagle1 - I don't know of anyone yet who has built a Hawk replica with the asymmetrical CM so I suppose they are all non-canon...?

As you say a lot of the parts are identifiable but I would be waiting for years to collect all the obscure kit parts needed.

I'll be building it for me so I'm going to go with what pleases me

So I'll be taking a few short cuts... I haven't even got the two Saturn 1b kits needed but the shapes aren't that complex so I'll even dummy them as well.

I'll never claim it as canon and it'll never enter a competition but hopefully I'll be happy with it!
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Old 13-12-2006, 11:22 PM   #62
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The funny thing is, if you replicated the studio models exactly, warts and all, you'd be very unlikely to win any model making prizes unless well educated judges recognise your intent and result.

Another example I can think of is where WWII tank crews used to hand paint personal lettering on their tank. This was often done freehand with a soft podgy brush. If you successfully replicate this on a model it looks sloppy even if it's technically correct. Again you need a well informed audience to recognise this as correct and not poor painting on your part.
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Old 13-12-2006, 11:33 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-SFX
The funny thing is, if you replicated the studio models exactly, warts and all, you'd be very unlikely to win any model making prizes unless well educated judges recognise your intent and result. <snip>
Too true - Many of the studio scale replicas people have built (yours included) look 'better' than the originals.

Not entirely surprising as most of the originals have been bashed around, repainted/rebuilt umpteen times, were built in a rush etc... sometimes all of these.

That is not to take anything away from the skill of either the original or the replica builders if you know what I mean...
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Old 13-12-2006, 11:36 PM   #64
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Agreed. Most of us aren't building models under the shadow of a tight deadline so we can add extra care.
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Old 14-12-2006, 03:22 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-SFX
The funny thing is, if you replicated the studio models exactly, warts and all, you'd be very unlikely to win any model making prizes unless well educated judges recognise your intent and result.

Another example I can think of is where WWII tank crews used to hand paint personal lettering on their tank. This was often done freehand with a soft podgy brush. If you successfully replicate this on a model it looks sloppy even if it's technically correct. Again you need a well informed audience to recognise this as correct and not poor painting on your part.
As a teenager, I made a 1/76 scale diorama of the Battle for Berlin at the end of WWII. It wasn't based on a specific moment during the battle, but rather it was a representation of the fierce city fighting that occurred there between the remains of the German army & the invading Russians. One thing I did do was research German camoflauge schemes for that area & timeframe, and found out that alot of German tanks were simply "quick-washed" with splotches of paint that let the original undercoat show through. I replicated this by hand painting my grey model with a splotchy overcoat of greenish colour... fortunately, astute viewers at more than one contest recognised my attempt for what it was supposed to be.
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Old 14-12-2006, 10:59 AM   #66
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I think there's a difference between small imperfections and some of the asymmetry problems we're talking about. I agree about things being too perfect. I always use the drum machine analogy on music tracks. A drum machine may be more technically perfect but a real drummer has more soul. However, if you stretch the analogy, no one wants to hear a drummer who is way off beat.
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Old 14-12-2006, 06:08 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elric
JericoEagle1 - I don't know of anyone yet who has built a Hawk replica with the asymmetrical CM so I suppose they are all non-canon...?
I have and I only have the raised detail on the left side edge of the big solar panel. I also tried to copy the slightly rough style and not make it too perfect. Oddly I try to make perfect models but I don't like the look of models that are too perfect!! Strange.

(Remember the Matte painter on the original Star Wars film who painted the Millienium Falcon with cockpits on BOTH sides.)
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Old 14-12-2006, 07:30 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elric
JericoEagle1 - I don't know of anyone yet who has built a Hawk replica with the asymmetrical CM so I suppose they are all non-canon...?
I have and I only have the raised detail on the left side edge of the big solar panel. I also tried to copy the slightly rough style and not make it too perfect. Oddly I try to make perfect models but I don't like the look of models that are too perfect!! Strange.

(Remember the Matte painter on the original Star Wars film who painted the Millienium Falcon with cockpits on BOTH sides.)
Well now I know of one

Just had a look on your 'Model News' page and it looks great!
I look forward to the article.

As JD says it's an individual thing.

Which is a good job as I'll never be up to the standard of the top builders.
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Old 14-12-2006, 07:53 PM   #69
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I think Dave's is a good example. I did exactly the same on mine. Close observers will note that there is only one "aileron" on one wing on the original studio model. I believe that's a valid asymmetry but I don't think straightening contours should be marked down if it's clearly "supposed" to be the same on each side.
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Old 15-12-2006, 08:48 PM   #70
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By coincidence, a similar thread on Starship Modeler:

http://www.starshipmodeler.net/cgi-b...ic.php?t=45719
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Old 15-12-2006, 09:41 PM   #71
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I love the look of Space 1999, Alpha is like a walk-in IPod. Somehow it just sort of "coheres". It is easy to believe that the civilisation that produced the moonbase, also produced the eagle, the comlocks even the costumes and the furniture. There is something satisfying in the way the inside of the eagle relates so obviously to its external shape. It is an internally consistent world and you sort of just accept really that a technology that could produce minature nuclear power plants for rockets and artificial gravity, never moved beyond the stage of clipboards, paper computer print out and black and white CRT monitors.

Back to the Hawk though...the artefacts on Space 1999 might cohere but the backstory has more holes than a cheese. But they are intriguing holes to ponder in idle moments. Who on earth in 1999 is building space fighters? What is the threat? There is some sort of global war in the 1980s and afterwards a world of international peace and cooperation. Why so much weaponry (even the eagles are armed)? No answer, I know, but I wonder what people imagine the answer might be?
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Old 15-12-2006, 09:51 PM   #72
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Koenig talks about World War III for lack of a better term when discussing earth history with Maya during "Rules Of Luton". It took place in 1987.

Perhaps the Hawks were a product of that war or it's aftermath...
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Old 15-12-2006, 10:17 PM   #73
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Oh yes...The Rules of Luton. I wonder if anyone has ever thought of making a model of the trees? Still think the Eagle knocks spots off the Hawk. It is a much more satisfying object. I think the Hawk looks, well, cobbled together (the pictures of the models on this site are beautiful, though. Fabulous). The Eagle "almost" reminds you of lots of things which to me is its appeal. It has an inevitability, you feel that you have always known it. It references so many different things; praying mantis, concept cars of the 60s, Apollo bits and bobs, Metabolist School architecture, Archizoom/Plug-In City, Pompidou Centre, Ford GT40 (something about the black panels on the pod?) and I could go on. To me the Eagle has a Gestalt and a richness of association that the Hawk does not.
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Old 15-12-2006, 10:29 PM   #74
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I think the two craft compliment each other perfectly, the Eagle as the workhorse/transport and the Hawk as the war machine.

I thought it was simply brilliant how Brian Johnson and Martin Bower gave the two ships common elements, such as the nose cone stylings, attitude thrusters, etc, that make it easy to believe these were built by the same company.

Maybe I'm not as sharp eyed as other model makers out there, but I don't recognize the Hawk as looking "cobbled together", because I don't readily recognize individual kit pieces. I've got a studio scal 30" Hawk built for me by Jim Small, made from the SAME kitbashed parts used by Mr. Bower, and I just think it's a gorgeous piece.

But again, the Hawk was only built for one episode so cheap, quick methods were used. Just one of many examples of Bower's ability to knock out a dynamite piece of work on short time and budget....
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Old 15-12-2006, 10:43 PM   #75
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Agree, it is amazing that the series produced so many great designs. After all, it's not "either/or" with the Hawk and Eagle but "both/and". Unfortunately I also have no taste having a sneaking fondness not only for the Kaldorian vessel and Taybor's craft but even the paddle steamer affair that housed Companion (I bet I'm in a minority there).
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Old 16-12-2006, 12:25 AM   #76
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Agreed. You never see ships like that in the 23rd century. Fresh and original.
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Old 16-12-2006, 02:36 AM   #77
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Star trek Federation ships - I often wonder just how many ways can you stick nacelles onto a ship? - too much sameness on these. 1999 certainly showed a great variety of designs. I know the guest ships on Trek did vary but most still had nacelles stuck somewhere. Gee, is the Hawk a copy from Trek the side engines in honour of Enterprise nacelles?
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Old 16-12-2006, 03:04 AM   #78
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Erm.... if I had to put money on it, I'd say probably not.
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Old 16-12-2006, 03:20 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashford
even the paddle steamer affair that housed Companion (I bet I'm in a minority there).
Well, there's at least two of us. Gwent was/is one of the most individual, eclectic, and interesting designs to appear on the show. It's a joy to watch!
Make that three. Even though the model may have frustrated its makers, it's definitely unique, and one I won't forget. I like the sense of scale it gives, with its entry points for the moonbuggy and later the Eagle... that craft was supposed to be HUGE!
Hey, I wonder if SAW is going to produce a kit...
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Old 16-12-2006, 03:32 AM   #80
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Yes

just saw one ship that had a few exter parts on the saucer section
but the same old thing over again ( not to put down his modeling work but come on) like to see "alien" in the ship design not just a nacel glued here

(The U.S.C. Draconis doesn't have a nacell one )
Space 1999 had alien ships of all sizes and shapes which was great to see
(and models i would like to build)
work on the eagle going slowly 8% progress
work on the fundemtions eagle 2% progress
work on the moonbase Alpha 0% progress
work on U.S.C. DRACONIS -drawing phase- 100% working model- 0% progress ect.
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