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Old 08-04-2007, 11:35 PM   #21
DX-SFX
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The rear door on my Laser Tank is based on a photo of the Laser Tank at the studio. The only details I know to be a (probably wrong) guess is the two little details in the lower corners. It was Martin's scaled up version of the door on the back of the 2001 Moonbus. Martin made a couple. The one on the tank got taken off and used on another model and another similar but different duplicate was made to go on the same model. If you had a pic, I could tell you which one was which.
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:45 PM   #22
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Is there a "talk about things randomly in a random order" thread anywhere?

Rob.

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Old 09-04-2007, 12:03 AM   #23
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I was just thinking that perhaps we should move this. The tiling on that tank is injection moulded. It's obviously scored and snapped if you look closely at it.
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:06 AM   #24
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Just because people worked on these shows many years ago doesn't mean that they remember exactly what they used. Do you remember exactly what paint colour or parts you used on models that you built 20 years ago? I don't!
There is a chap who I very much respect for his skills and work on the earlier Anderson series but he is totally convinced that the UFO Moonbase Interceptors were Blue even in the face of an original that is white!
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianS
Quote:
Originally Posted by the DOCTOR
The engines on the Hawk were made from plastic bottle tops and a caddimatic coffee cup painted silver, not turned aluminium.

So, after all the calls for screen accuracy, you want the replica to be innaccurate? I don't get it.
I think this confuses screen accuracy 'look' and screen accuracy 'materials'. They are not the same. And I would suggest that when people request 'screen accuracy' they are not necessarily talking about producing a replica from the same materials as the original model but instead are talking about the look of the model on the screen or in pictures.

Put simply, the fact that a replica is made from different materials than the original does not mean that the look is therefore necessarily different. And, since the replica is obviously not going to be made from "bottle tops and a caddimatic coffee cup painted silver" the issue of screen accurate materials is already necessarily mute anyway. Any model is going to be "innacurate" by that standard no matter what. (The die-cast Eagles are "innacurate" by that standard, for instance). Thus when referencing "screen accurate" the only real issue is that of the 'look' - ie is the 'look' reproduced well?

Now one might argue that a metallic look to the bells would not reproduce a screen accurate 'look'. But I do not think that is an unassailable (ie unquestionable) position. It certainly is not unquestionable in regard to the Eagle (I would make the strong argument that metallic looking bells would have been more 'screen accurate' in look). I think it is equally questionable when it comes to the Hawk as well. The photos of the replica do not appear to be as shiny metallic as photos of the original model.

Thus, at this point at least, my question remains.
Brian, well put. I agree with you. There is a difference between a model made to be seen for a few seconds on a 70s television set, and one made to be scrutinized in an acrylic box. If the aim is the copy the model rather than the screen look, why does the PE emergency pod have stripes on both sides? (the original one didn't). The PE bells are plastic mostly because it's cheaper, just as on the 23" Eagle, not to achieve material accuracy. But I do see the problem with the fuel feed on the Hawk main bell, true.

Anyway, metal bells was just a suggestion. It's not that important to me as I'm not planning to buy anything from PE's new direction. It's not that the gear doesn't look good, it does, but the collector's items are too expensive and too big for display, unless one happens to have a very spacious accomodation (I don't). Maybe, just maybe, I also miss a little of the-customer-is-right attitude that is more often lacking on this this side of the Atlantic than the other.
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Old 09-04-2007, 05:21 PM   #26
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With regards to the Stun gun cast line which was on the original - I for one (and I guess many here also) wouldn't want such an ugly visible line on a replica, housed in an acrylic case. You can't call a prop with a cast line such as that a 'hero' prop, more like a background 2nd generation prop.
Don't make the mistake Master Replicas made with their (excuse me, please gentlemen) Star Trek TOS Phaser, and reproduce details which were errors in the reference piece. I'm refering to the angled gap in front of the four metal fins at the back of the Phaser. MR decided to clean up all the warts and asymmetry of the reference prop, but not the gap. So, is it a replica Phaser or a replica prop? Neither, a hybrid.

We all know how we want a replica of the Stun gun to look. Perfect.
Okay, everyone’s version of perfection is different, but I'm sure we all want the stun gun to look flawless, as if it were a real weapon from that imagined show - and not a replica 'prop' but a replica Stun gun, somehow magically transported from an alternate universe where the events of the show were real.
Thanks to w8cmp's post earlier in this thread of various versions it's clear (to me) the most desirable is the season one version.
The second season stun/kill slider is an afterthought, added by the prop department to an already sleek and original design to aid visual storytelling. Oh, and it wasn't much use to left-handers!

I don't post here much, so I'd just like to add that I believe companies such as MR & PE would benefit from a little more market research for their chosen product lines. If PE want to know what we want from their products - be they Space 1999 or Thunderbirds or any show for that matter, then just ask us.
I can appreciate the need for secrecy, and the need to feel the buzz received from unveiling new products, but a little more market / product research will save a lot of money and disappointment for the developer/s when an inaccurate product is revealed and critisized.
There are a few experts here - and those who are not are passionate enough about the chosen subject to speak their minds and back up their observations with pictures for proof. Throw your net wider.

To sum up:
I think a white version Hawk is a good idea, but the decision to not produce them in scale with the 12" Eagles a major shoot-yourself-in-the-foot senario and a serious loss of potential revenue.
It's probably safe to say everyone who has bought an Eagle will buy a Hawk to go with it.
The argument that the Hawk's engines were not made from aluminum, therefore the PE versions won't be is a little annoying. We all know in the 'real' world of Space 1999 they would have been metal and therefore should be on the model.
I'd just like to add that the weathering on TB2 OTT and is a serious flaw and needs to be addressed ASAP.

Thanks for reading.

Howard.
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:13 PM   #27
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I for one would agree with Howard regarding the Stun Gun's seam line. As all of us modellers know, the first thing which has to be eliminated on any model is a seamline. However if it is only a prop to be shown on low resolution TV, there is neither the time nor the need to produce props and models to the same standards as we do for exhibiting.

If any company started making reproductions to the same standards as the show props, then they wouldn't sell very many. Just look at photos of some of the Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet models and you'll see missing or peeling sticky tape lining and other defects etc. But no-one would think of copying such defects.

Keith
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:10 PM   #28
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But the seam line does make sense. Remember All that Glisters where Maya has the stun gun in bits to reconfigure it? The gun is split in two halves along the line that is causing such consternation. As with the Hawk, which this thread is actually about, the final product will likely change form the early prototypes.

Doug.
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:36 AM   #29
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Just to jump in with my two cents on the Hawk's bell jet.

The bell on the model now is indeed made mainly from a Cadymatic dispenser - this is not in dispute. However, the original bell was turned in wood, and was re-used from a model Martin had made for himself some time previously (which is why he remembers it clearly - as was the foot pad used on top of the Hawk).

It's interesting to note that it's a true 'church bell' shape as well, which I find quite entertaining.

Now, at some point it has been replaced. Martin doesn't remember doing that, so it must have been after the Alton Towers exhibition...? (Bear in mind the collector who had the miniature is a skilled model maker, and has used Cadymatics on his own models - just a thought).

Putting an Aluminium bell on the PE Hawk could be a problem, the 'coolant tube' that surrounds it would make life quite difficult - the whole thing would have to be cast, then finished and polished up - a lot of work. It couldn't simply be turned.....
I can understand the desire to leave it as painted, like the original miniature.

Just my two cents, as I said.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:42 AM   #30
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Show me yours?

Rob.

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Old 10-04-2007, 09:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
The bell on the model now is indeed made mainly from a Cadymatic dispenser - this is not in dispute. However, the original bell was turned in wood, and was re-used from a model Martin had made for himself some time previously (which is why he remembers it clearly - as was the foot pad used on top of the Hawk).

It's interesting to note that it's a true 'church bell' shape as well, which I find quite entertaining.

Now, at some point it has been replaced. Martin doesn't remember doing that, so it must have been after the Alton Towers exhibition...? (Bear in mind the collector who had the miniature is a skilled model maker, and has used Cadymatics on his own models - just a thought).
I'm afraid I have to dispute some of that statement. This is one of BJ's famous profile shots taken at the studio of the models for the toy companies. It matches perfectly the casting I have sitting here including the small imperfections. Either it's a combination of wood/Caddymatic or the years have fogged the ol' memory.



Rob, ask Martin for a copy of his picture of the Laser Tank taken from the three quarter rear on the model lunarscape he made. It might be in one of the Fanderson Design Files. It's one of the photos taken at the same time as this:

http://www.martinbowersmodelworld.co...nce_Tank_3.JPG

I can't currently find the photo but the details are definitely different. The waffle pattern in the middle clearly has a raised centre bar which says chopped down Airfix Saturn V LM leg. The details on the bottom corners are also different. Trust me when I say that although I may not have been able to identify the parts, I wouldn't have used Panther wire cutters in place of obviously round SRN4 parts like that. I think you're looking at the door that was made that went on the elevator model for Into Infinity.

Also the small blocks running around the perimeter of the door are actually thin vacforms. They are the bottom edge of a plastic drinking cup, cut off as a strip and stuck on. The same drinking cup bottom make up the feet of the Voyager and there's also one on the side of that big close up section of Eagle Leg that Mark Shaw sold on eBay recently.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:57 PM   #32
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Rob.

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Old 11-04-2007, 12:11 AM   #33
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I stand corrected. They were Matilda parts. I knew it was a tan coloured Tamiya tank kit.

Can you post that photo? Mine's still boxed up from the house move last year (I assume as I can't find it) and it's difficult to comment without it in front of me as I'm going from memory (it was a while ago).

Are we going to linger on the Tank long? How about we promise to return to the Hawk shortly?
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:16 AM   #34
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Sorry 'bout that.

Rob.

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Old 11-04-2007, 12:33 AM   #35
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I just checked the DVD of Into Infinity. At 6 mins 28 secs there's a shot of the Altares undocking from underneath. Look on the side of the structure towards the ship and you'll see the original Laser Tank door. The door of the elevator that you see earlier is similar but not the same. They're both scaled up versions of the Aurora Moonbus rear door because Martin used that kit piece on a smaller scale version of the elevator. I guarantee you, you've got the details for the wrong door.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:42 AM   #36
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Dang,

Wish I had that movie now. Been wanting it for ages, but never got it yet.



Rob.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:51 AM   #37
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I doubt if it will be considered proof but it does show there were two large doors and one of them was built after series one of 1999.

For your interest, here is the small version using the Aurora kit door:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sfx_films/smalldoor.jpg

Just seen the time. We'll have to pick this up tomorrow.
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:01 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle-1
Dang,

Wish I had that movie now. Been wanting it for ages, but never got it yet.



Rob.
You got PM...
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:51 PM   #39
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Into Infinity was made between season one and two and quality wise, sits roughly halfway between the two.
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Old 11-04-2007, 02:44 PM   #40
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where can I get it??? Is this a complete original story or is it compiled from two shows?
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