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Old 03-06-2011, 01:06 AM   #1
MoonbaseAlpha
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Default Bonhams Memorabilia Auction 29th June

Hi Guys,

Not sure if anyone has noticed this but at the next Bonhams Memorabilia sale there are 8 lots of original (well, said to be) items from Thunderbirds, they start at lot 102 with a Lady Penelope puppet.
All the 8 items are from the collection of Christine Glanville. as stated...

http://www.bonhams.com/asi/auction/19036/


If I've put this in the wrong place I'm sorry.


Andy.

Last edited by MoonbaseAlpha; 03-06-2011 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:24 AM   #2
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The Lady P puppet as usual is claimed as 1960's original Tbirds but looks like one made in the 80's for adverts popular at the time.
I remember when the Meddings collection auctioned and again TB2 drawings completed in the late 80's were described as original 1960's. Big difference to the value of course.
Amazing what auction houses can get away with.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:48 AM   #3
Steve Zodiac
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The Penny from the ad was sold by Gerry at Fleetwood Owens's auction at Planet Hollywood, London, on July 31 2001, along with other stuff from Phil. It was at this sale that Gerry sold his Parker for 38K, the Penny made 15K and Phil's Alan Tracy made 19K. All the prices would be plus buyers premium of 15% and 17.5% VAT on that.

Last edited by Steve Zodiac; 03-06-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:10 AM   #4
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There were adverts for dvla etc etc and the dire straights video as well as adverts in New Zealand and no doubt other parts of the globe. The electrics in this head
look more recent than the unit fitted to Gerry's original, the puppet sold at Fleetwood. They would have had back up heads as well. Im sure this came from Christine but not sure this was completed by her, just not her style..
It will be interesting to see it in the flesh so to speak.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:20 AM   #5
Steve Zodiac
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Gerry's Penny was not "original", but was made for the Swinton Insurance ads.

The electrics are much more modern, I'm not sure if Barry Davies did the conversions, certainly Gerry's Parker was altered in the same way.

Last edited by Steve Zodiac; 03-06-2011 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:53 AM   #6
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Hi, agreed the Penny head looks like an original cast (you can tell from the fibreglass I`ve never seen it replicated) but I have my doubts as to the wig, paintwork, eyes etc and definately the electronics are modern.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:10 AM   #7
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This head could have been made in the eighties by christine using original materials and why wouldnt she, how on earth would anybody know? Christine made a replica Parker for Gerry, I think in the eighties and he couldnt tell the difference insisting at one point that the replica was the original!

I agree with you Chris the sum total of wig, paint etc is questionable, a lot of money
for so many questions
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fab1 View Post
This head could have been made in the eighties by christine using original materials and why wouldnt she, how on earth would anybody know? Christine made a replica Parker for Gerry, I think in the eighties and he couldnt tell the difference insisting at one point that the replica was the original!

I agree with you Chris the sum total of wig, paint etc is questionable, a lot of money
for so many questions
Hi Graham, I`ve seen stuff made in the eighties by Christine, she used p38 or similar, same as everyone else. The head cast is deffo a studio original, bottom line is its very difficult to ascertain from the pics how much more is. 10k for an original Lady P would be a pretty good price these days, imo, Chris
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:45 PM   #9
Air Terrainean
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'Lot No: 102

Thunderbirds: a Lady Penelope puppet,
comprising an original head with internal electrical mechanism revealed by removable back section, used in the 1960s T.V series, matched to later body and clothing, complete with wires and puppeteer's controls, 51cm (20in) high'

I'm pretty sure this description of the puppet is correct, although I'm not 100% sure about the head mechanism. I have pictures of Christine using the puppet in the 90s, and I'm sure she told me that the head was an original that she'd found at the back of a drawer and refurbished. The description doesn't mention the fact that the wig is not original however.
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Terrainean View Post
'Lot No: 102

Thunderbirds: a Lady Penelope puppet,
comprising an original head with internal electrical mechanism revealed by removable back section, used in the 1960s T.V series, matched to later body and clothing, complete with wires and puppeteer's controls, 51cm (20in) high'

I'm pretty sure this description of the puppet is correct, although I'm not 100% sure about the head mechanism. I have pictures of Christine using the puppet in the 90s, and I'm sure she told me that the head was an original that she'd found at the back of a drawer and refurbished. The description doesn't mention the fact that the wig is not original however.
Studying the pics again, certainly the lips are repainted, poss the whole head (if you look at the back of the head you can see where its been overpainted a darker shade, but no way of knowing whether that was done then or now) the eyes look real, or are the best repros I`ve seen (!) wig not sure about, difficult to tell from the pics, all of the internal mechs are wrong though so I would assume that`s all modern. It could be made lovely again, worth 8 - 10k imo.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:40 PM   #11
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My opinion of the construction, fiberglass thickness, fiberglass colour, colour of filler points to an original 1960's head
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:26 PM   #12
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Lady P didnt have pink lips or lower painted eyelashes. This head has both!
Christine would not have made any mistakes certainly not as basic as the ones seen here.
Bonhams have told me they were told it was screen used hence the price but have nothing more than a verbal statement from somebody close to Christine.
I have chatted with Terry Curtis who has seen the pics and he thinks this was a head made in the 80's by Christine.
Christine had a Penny head in her work box which was seen shortly before she died, I guess this may be that head.
Wonder who did the electrics and was it the same person who painted the pink lips?
I am amazed that Bonhams have so little provenance for this item.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:42 PM   #13
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I think the the price perfectly represents what the head is, 16 years ago the Sylvia Penelope was estimated at more than this, I feel 8000-10,000 is absolute peanuts regardless what the history is I for one would pay 15,000+ for it
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwhoprops View Post
I think the the price perfectly represents what the head is, 16 years ago the Sylvia Penelope was estimated at more than this, I feel 8000-10,000 is absolute peanuts regardless what the history is I for one would pay 15,000+ for it
I`m with you Jamie, the head is definitely original. Sure I agree with Graham its been repainted and the electronics are new, but its fundamentally an original head that just needs a sympathetic restoration. And yes, its peanuts at 10k - if a Captain Grey head that wasn`t even screen used can reach 20k usd then God knows what this could reach.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:29 PM   #15
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The point is we dont know what this head actually is! It may be just a unused shell found by Christine which has never seen the light of day or camera. The Sylvia Penny was screen used and authentic so not sure how you can compare the two.
The Bonhams head would need repainting to get it to screen match and it still even after painting would probably not be a studio used on tv or film head.
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:36 PM   #16
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I'm only comparing the two as in how high the Philips puppet was estimated and how low this is, I suppose the side character best illustrates this with a estimate of 3000-4000 back in 1996 they were 150!!

Even as a none screen used shell but of the period I think it would be a gift at 8000-10,000
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwhoprops View Post
I'm only comparing the two as in how high the Philips puppet was estimated and how low this is, I suppose the side character best illustrates this with a estimate of 3000-4000 back in 1996 they were 150!!

Even as a none screen used shell but of the period I think it would be a gift at 8000-10,000
I think none screen used original heads are obviously worth less than a screen used head in `as-filmed` condition. However it isn`t as though we can pick - and - choose,,,,these heads are the rarest of the rare. If its a head cast made at the studio then its an original head, and should fetch proper money.
As a point of interest I just purchased two original but none screen used heads, Cpt Grey and Magenta. Both had been undercoated but then chucked away at the time before being rescued by a member of staff as keepsakes. I value them just as much as the other original heads I own.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:27 PM   #18
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Hello again!

We are so sad and had our tape measures out because the auction head appeared to have a larger face and the position of the top lip is painted higher and fuller to compensate for this.
Using an original puppet photo we checked the proportions and the auction head is bigger and this is clearly shown by the gap from bottom lip to chin.
The central features are correct but the overall size seems to be irregular.

Dr Holmes & Ms Watson esq

over to the team of experts ...........................
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fab1 View Post
Hello again!

We are so sad and had our tape measures out because the auction head appeared to have a larger face and the position of the top lip is painted higher and fuller to compensate for this.
Using an original puppet photo we checked the proportions and the auction head is bigger and this is clearly shown by the gap from bottom lip to chin.
The central features are correct but the overall size seems to be irregular.

Dr Holmes & Ms Watson esq

over to the team of experts ...........................
Hi,for me the head is primarily original, but my advice to anyone having a serious punt at it is to go and have a look....I wouldn`t consider spending that kind of money without first hand investigation....
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:08 PM   #20
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Hi.

I have no opinion on the Puppet nor interest in the auction.
I'm nowhere near qualified to make a judgement on the head.

I do have this in my collection.




I don't think these are 60s puppets. Quite clearly they are strung.
Penelope's body doesn't look like a puppet body.
The print is backsigned by Christine.

Same head?

Experts get on the case........
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