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Old 03-08-2006, 02:09 AM   #1
fs-boneyard
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Default Eagle hanger above ground or underground??? Both???

Fs-Boneyard

On the first Episode of Space1999 the Eagle hanger is clearly above ground because when the commander is talking to Carter in the tech room
there are windows of the moons surface in the background and they walk over to the hanger window and watch the eagle on the crane roll by...
This would leave you with the opinion there is an above the ground hanger.
Later on in the series the show totally focuses on the underground hangers located below the 4 launch pads which as the series rolls on
becomes a much higher number of launch pads.

Has anybody noticed this>???
Pete
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:51 AM   #2
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Yes. Yes we have.



(long pause)




OK, I'm not just going to leave it at that! Just having fun, or being weird, or both.

Anyway, one way to explain the windows to the surface could be that the end of the flight control room was (for whatever reason) exposed to the lunar surface. The rest of the structure (and of course, the main hangar) is underground. No, it's not the best solution, and no, it doesn't make much sense from a design standpoint. But it's one way to explain away the nit. (Doesn't help that I'm tired, so maybe this makes more sense to me than to anyone else...)
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:21 PM   #3
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Trying to match what you saw on screen between the live action sets and the models can give you a lot of headaches. The Eagle Hangers and the launch pads are a prime example of this.

Aside from the obvious "just where is this control room?" problem in Breakaway, take a look at the launch pads. Most of the time the travel tube takes our heros right up to the boading tube to the Eagle. How the travel tube got 3 stories above the lunar surface and parallel to the upper surface of the launch pad is never explained. How the travel tube got to within 8 feet of the Eagle is never too clear either.

Then there are the "departure areas" of the launch pads. In several episodes, most notably "Dragon's Domain" we see a 50 foot corridor leading directly up to the boarding tube. This is physically impossible to reconcile with the exterior design of the launch pads. There is only a small structure attatched to the boarding tube.


But .... this can all be explained away if we ever locate where the mysterous launch pads 6,7,8,9 and 10 were placed. If we guess that launch pad 6 is attatched to the research area in "The Exiles" and launch pad 7 is the cross shaped pad where the Eagle lands in "The AB Chrysalis", that leaves us 8,9 and 10 to be hiding behind a hill somepace, with a large above ground structure containing control rooms and access corridors.

Hell, it's all fantasy anyway. Why not get creative?
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:26 PM   #4
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Default oh...That is why..

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_trek
Trying to match what you saw on screen between the live action sets and the models can give you a lot of headaches. The Eagle Hangers and the launch pads are a prime example of this.

Aside from the obvious "just where is this control room?" problem in Breakaway, take a look at the launch pads. Most of the time the travel tube takes our heros right up to the boading tube to the Eagle. How the travel tube got 3 stories above the lunar surface and parallel to the upper surface of the launch pad is never explained. How the travel tube got to within 8 feet of the Eagle is never too clear either.

Then there are the "departure areas" of the launch pads. In several episodes, most notably "Dragon's Domain" we see a 50 foot corridor leading directly up to the boarding tube. This is physically impossible to reconcile with the exterior design of the launch pads. There is only a small structure attatched to the boarding tube.


But .... this can all be explained away if we ever locate where the mysterous launch pads 6,7,8,9 and 10 were placed. If we guess that launch pad 6 is attatched to the research area in "The Exiles" and launch pad 7 is the cross shaped pad where the Eagle lands in "The AB Chrysalis", that leaves us 8,9 and 10 to be hiding behind a hill somepace, with a large above ground structure containing control rooms and access corridors.

Hell, it's all fantasy anyway. Why not get creative?

Im having more fun than ever 30 years later re watching this series..

Im happy with the above the ground hanger..Infact it makes more sense
than the titan missle hanger approach used later on...
The main Mission tends in each episode to change too...SIZE
'SHAPE AND Furnature seems to move around somtimes the stairs
are close somtime far away...this is definetly an assembled set
that gets moved around when shooting...

The travel tubes need to be studied to see how they work...
Can we assume that it travels out the boarding ramp to the eagle????
Like the Tardus it must change in size....HMMMMM

Fun to watch...

Pete
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Old 04-08-2006, 06:34 AM   #5
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Maybe this can help a little...



As for Main Mission, having just modelled it in 3ds Max I have decided there are approx 3 version that were shown

Breakaway set- steps up to windows, no desk on a turntable for Kano, high ceilings (5 meters +).

Post Breakaway- Kano gets his desk at the front at last, observation level gets longer to main screen wall.

Post- post Breakaway (rest of year 1) steps to windows gone, overall the ceiling height 'seems' lower and panels on the back wall towards the command office are a different arrangement.
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Old 04-08-2006, 08:47 AM   #6
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I don't think the Main Mission set got any longer, but the window positions did change, which could make one think that there was an extra section added to one side of them... as far as I know, there were always eight computer banks under the observation balcony (from the back wall all the way up to the front Big Screen wall).
Yes, the window wall stairs did disappear, and the windows were lowered (and a row of short panels was added atop them) to compensate for the stairs' absense; this may be what causes confusion about ceiling height along that wall.
As for moving furniture, the desks were not permanently fixed and could be moved about. In "Breakaway," they are all clustered together in a square "U" shape. Later, a gap was added between the first set of desks (the upper parts of the "U" closest to the Big Screen) and the rest of them (the base of the "U" closest to the Commander's Office).
And yes, Kano got his own desk in the middle of the "U" atop it's own turntable.
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Old 05-08-2006, 01:46 AM   #7
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Here's something else that might help, and actually shows what I was trying to describe... Over at the Catacombs is a Moonbase Guide. http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/main/cguide/um.html
By clicking on the Main Mission tab, you'll get three pages of info and pics about Main Mission, showing the various changes. Going back to the main Moonbase Guide and clicking the Virtual Moonase Alpha tab at the bottom, you'll get great Roberto Baldassari graphics of the various walls throughout the base, including of course, Main Mission. Certain rooms (including MM) have tabs you can click for 'initial configuration' and second configuration.' (Some rooms have tabs for specific episode configurations.)
I hope this helps out. (It would have helped me in my pre-internet, pre-dvd days when I was making blueprints for model building purposes!)
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Old 06-08-2006, 04:41 PM   #8
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Default Well looky that!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR
I don't think the Main Mission set got any longer, but the window positions did change, which could make one think that there was an extra section added to one side of them... as far as I know, there were always eight computer banks under the observation balcony (from the back wall all the way up to the front Big Screen wall).
Yes, the window wall stairs did disappear, and the windows were lowered (and a row of short panels was added atop them) to compensate for the stairs' absense; this may be what causes confusion about ceiling height along that wall.
As for moving furniture, the desks were not permanently fixed and could be moved about. In "Breakaway," they are all clustered together in a square "U" shape. Later, a gap was added between the first set of desks (the upper parts of the "U" closest to the Big Screen) and the rest of them (the base of the "U" closest to the Commander's Office).
And yes, Kano got his own desk in the middle of the "U" atop it's own turntable.

Wow...I missed that Link...Thanks...I guess there was alot of shakin
going on when the series was made....

Pete
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:28 PM   #9
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Default theres the link

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR
Here's something else that might help, and actually shows what I was trying to describe... Over at the Catacombs is a Moonbase Guide. http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/main/cguide/um.html
By clicking on the Main Mission tab, you'll get three pages of info and pics about Main Mission, showing the various changes. Going back to the main Moonbase Guide and clicking the Virtual Moonase Alpha tab at the bottom, you'll get great Roberto Baldassari graphics of the various walls throughout the base, including of course, Main Mission. Certain rooms (including MM) have tabs you can click for 'initial configuration' and second configuration.' (Some rooms have tabs for specific episode configurations.)
I hope this helps out. (It would have helped me in my pre-internet, pre-dvd days when I was making blueprints for model building purposes!)

Silly me--responded to the wrong message..

Ahh thers is the link.....

This is great stuff...Sombody has put alot of effort into picking apart

all these structure issues...
Im going to spend some time here....

Pete
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:02 PM   #10
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I found it very obvious, that the structures of the moonbase were quite different from the outside than from the inside. But you could always argue, that the "moon city" was quite large and you never got to see all the rooms and probably all the hangars during the run of the series.

There could easily be several eagle hangars. The hangar on the surface could even have been destroyed during the events in "Breakaway", so that only the underground hangar(s) remained operational.

As the launch pads are quite far appart, it seems to make little sense to just have a single eagle hangar... this would mean you'd always have to load the eagles on huge travel-tube-like things and ship them out to the launch sites. Which involves digging huge underground tunnels to send the eagles through.

On the other hand: the lift platforms in the hangar don't match the cross-shaped ones on the launch pads... therefore one must assume, the eagles have to be shifted at least once between the lift in the hangar and the launch pads.

If I remember it correctly, in one second series episode, it is implied the launch pad goes down directly to the hangar... which cannot be true becaus of the different shapes of the platforms.

Another thing is, that I always felt the inside of main mission (beautiful set by the way) doesn't at all match the outside of the main mission tower model.

Or the travel tubes: are they now underground or on surface level? I guess they should even be able to move vertically to reach all the different levels and sections of the moon base.

So in the end, it all comes down to: beautiful models, beautiful sets but they don't match up!

Apparently a lot of thinking went into the designs... but I think there wasn't enough time to make every little thing match up. And if we are honest: the sets and the miniature models were just means to tell the story... so let's be glad they make as much sense as they do and are as lovingly designed as they actually are.

I think every director of an episode would always put a nice set that fits the scene and delivers the atmosphere he wanted to achieve, above the continuity and logic of the model buildings.
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Old 07-08-2006, 01:18 AM   #11
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Default Just like all of Irwin Allens productions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
I found it very obvious, that the structures of the moonbase were quite different from the outside than from the inside. But you could always argue, that the "moon city" was quite large and you never got to see all the rooms and probably all the hangars during the run of the series.

There could easily be several eagle hangars. The hangar on the surface could even have been destroyed during the events in "Breakaway", so that only the underground hangar(s) remained operational.

As the launch pads are quite far appart, it seems to make little sense to just have a single eagle hangar... this would mean you'd always have to load the eagles on huge travel-tube-like things and ship them out to the launch sites. Which involves digging huge underground tunnels to send the eagles through.

On the other hand: the lift platforms in the hangar don't match the cross-shaped ones on the launch pads... therefore one must assume, the eagles have to be shifted at least once between the lift in the hangar and the launch pads.

If I remember it correctly, in one second series episode, it is implied the launch pad goes down directly to the hangar... which cannot be true becaus of the different shapes of the platforms.

Another thing is, that I always felt the inside of main mission (beautiful set by the way) doesn't at all match the outside of the main mission tower model.

Or the travel tubes: are they now underground or on surface level? I guess they should even be able to move vertically to reach all the different levels and sections of the moon base.

So in the end, it all comes down to: beautiful models, beautiful sets but they don't match up!

Apparently a lot of thinking went into the designs... but I think there wasn't enough time to make every little thing match up. And if we are honest: the sets and the miniature models were just means to tell the story... so let's be glad they make as much sense as they do and are as lovingly designed as they actually are.

I think every director of an episode would always put a nice set that fits the scene and delivers the atmosphere he wanted to achieve, above the continuity and logic of the model buildings.
Ill agree ..This is like Irwin Allens Productions...The Sea View Submarine
in no way matches the sets nor does the Jupitor 2 match the 3 levels
that it had...Its to small!

As with space 1999 I enjoy the show for what it is..A TV Show...
Im An Origional fan back from 1975 anD always accepted the flaws
of the series...But it is pure enjoyment to watch for the technical
issues,,,I guess It makes us all dIE hARD fANS!!!

The sets in no way match the models...but What makes the most
accurate Eagle too...The Nazi's made over 100 versions of the BF109
fighter plane..Seemed like every week of the war there was a change..
Meaning..What is the most accurate eagle???? Seeing there made at
Alpha according to some thing I read...Why should they be identical
So in reality the eagle could be a hodge podge of parts...
Soooo..All these guys are making the most (SCALE) (ACCURATE)
Eagle..To WHat???There must be 5 different blue prints out there..

Alot of talent went into the show but also alot of imagination too
which makes for all kinds of technical questions later after the show
has been seen 150 times...

I accept the above the ground Hanger..And I accept that the windows
on the eagle do not line up with the seats for a good view...
If you dont then your taking our fun 30 year old TV show to seriously...

Iv been having fun at the Link posted...Wow I though I had no Life..
Im laughing at this guy teching out every episode....
Fun Stuff....But Wow...Man,,,No Life...

Pete FS-Boneyard
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Old 07-08-2006, 06:14 AM   #12
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There was an "official edition" Technical Manual for S:99 back in the 1970's, but many of its blueprints were not entirely accurate. Still, it did show some interesting postulates about the insides of Moonbase Alpha. At least it can be used as a starting point for attempting to reconcile interior sets with exterior models.
Regarding Main Mission not fitting in the tower, it's only supposed to be in part of the tower top, not the whole thing. One could argue that the "official" Tech Manual really isn't right, but it gives a nice idea about how the set could have fit. (It assumes that the tower is several stories tall, which is borne out on screen.)
Here's a link to an online archive of the Tech Manual: http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...matnindex.html
This is the page that shows Main Mission Tower: http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1007.html
This page shows floor plans of Main Mission Tower (along the sidebar): http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1003.html


Regarding launch pads and hangars, there were more than one hangar, presumably one under each pad, though I always suspected that the really big one seen on screen in Season One was under the two pads close together... turns out the Tech Manual places it there, too.
http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1006.html
(Here's the external plan for comparison...) http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1001.html


By the way, I agree with the idea that not every room in the base was shown... it's a HUGE base! (I actually got into a disagreement with someone on a different forum about that; he preferred Season Two's Medical Center to Season One's multiple medical rooms, whereas I felt that the multiple rooms were more realistic, like a real hospital would be. Edited to add: I should point out that the other individual's point about having one smaller medical set was for familiarity; rather than having a new set every episode or two, one could get used to having the same set throughout the season. It's not a bad point, actually, just one that I don't agree with in terms of a large moonbase.)
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Old 13-08-2006, 03:57 PM   #13
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Default SPACE 2099 Sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR
There was an "official edition" Technical Manual for S:99 back in the 1970's, but many of its blueprints were not entirely accurate. Still, it did show some interesting postulates about the insides of Moonbase Alpha. At least it can be used as a starting point for attempting to reconcile interior sets with exterior models.
Regarding Main Mission not fitting in the tower, it's only supposed to be in part of the tower top, not the whole thing. One could argue that the "official" Tech Manual really isn't right, but it gives a nice idea about how the set could have fit. (It assumes that the tower is several stories tall, which is borne out on screen.)
Here's a link to an online archive of the Tech Manual: http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...matnindex.html
This is the page that shows Main Mission Tower: http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1007.html
This page shows floor plans of Main Mission Tower (along the sidebar): http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1003.html


Regarding launch pads and hangars, there were more than one hangar, presumably one under each pad, though I always suspected that the really big one seen on screen in Season One was under the two pads close together... turns out the Tech Manual places it there, too.
http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1006.html
(Here's the external plan for comparison...) http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1001.html


By the way, I agree with the idea that not every room in the base was shown... it's a HUGE base! (I actually got into a disagreement with someone on a different forum about that; he preferred Season Two's Medical Center to Season One's multiple medical rooms, whereas I felt that the multiple rooms were more realistic, like a real hospital would be. Edited to add: I should point out that the other individual's point about having one smaller medical set was for familiarity; rather than having a new set every episode or two, one could get used to having the same set throughout the season. It's not a bad point, actually, just one that I don't agree with in terms of a large moonbase.)
CR Thanks for the Set Diagram Links...
Ewwww! There to big.... And they dont fit the theme of the show...
This place was built for Hazardous waste disposal and Houseing Eagles..
So I drew out some scetches and Im going with the Above and underground Hanger and A big Nuke Power Plant and water System...
There are just things that we cant explain on paper like the Eagle Lifts
Shuttle tubes and Command Center..
I love the Big Main frame computer of the first season...
I Hate when Sci Fi shows try to PC/MAC the thing...
Commlocks are like Super Cell Phones and they need a big computer
Infrastucture to run them....

As for Space 2099...The come back series...The Moon Base would have
All kinds of rooms and things to support the series the sets would always
change so the Techno Nerds could not make a Diagram of the base..

I love the after market diagrams of the Eagles/Hawks and Alpha
but they dont fit the imagination of the series.....

Pete FS-Boneyard
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Old 16-08-2006, 01:26 AM   #14
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Default Watched war games again

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR
There was an "official edition" Technical Manual for S:99 back in the 1970's, but many of its blueprints were not entirely accurate. Still, it did show some interesting postulates about the insides of Moonbase Alpha. At least it can be used as a starting point for attempting to reconcile interior sets with exterior models.
Regarding Main Mission not fitting in the tower, it's only supposed to be in part of the tower top, not the whole thing. One could argue that the "official" Tech Manual really isn't right, but it gives a nice idea about how the set could have fit. (It assumes that the tower is several stories tall, which is borne out on screen.)
Here's a link to an online archive of the Tech Manual: http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...matnindex.html
This is the page that shows Main Mission Tower: http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1007.html
This page shows floor plans of Main Mission Tower (along the sidebar): http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1003.html


Regarding launch pads and hangars, there were more than one hangar, presumably one under each pad, though I always suspected that the really big one seen on screen in Season One was under the two pads close together... turns out the Tech Manual places it there, too.
http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1006.html
(Here's the external plan for comparison...) http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/.../matn1001.html


By the way, I agree with the idea that not every room in the base was shown... it's a HUGE base! (I actually got into a disagreement with someone on a different forum about that; he preferred Season Two's Medical Center to Season One's multiple medical rooms, whereas I felt that the multiple rooms were more realistic, like a real hospital would be. Edited to add: I should point out that the other individual's point about having one smaller medical set was for familiarity; rather than having a new set every episode or two, one could get used to having the same set throughout the season. It's not a bad point, actually, just one that I don't agree with in terms of a large moonbase.)

Watch War Games...That control tower must have only 1-2 floors
No WAy like in the drawing....Look at the windows on the episode
The base is big but not that big....the drawing looks like a Hoiday Inn

Pete
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Old 16-08-2006, 02:58 AM   #15
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Here's a shot from "guardian of Piri" which was repeated in "War Games": http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...p/spgop019.jpg

Another angle, this one from "Force of Life": http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...l/spfol044.jpg

Well, based on the miniature, one could easily argue that the top section of Main Mission Tower had three floors, probably four. I guesstimate that the set for Main Mission alone was roughly 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 floors, including sunken areas & the observation balcony; the Commander's office was about 1 1/4 stories, including the sunken conference area.

Obviously those 'official' blueprints from the Tech Manual were pretty conjectural. I suspect that the 'hotel'-sized profile was made in order to make the tower fit in with the huge "moon city"-sized base the original writer's guide and/or publicity claimed Alpha was supposed to be. What was it, something like 2.5 kilomters across or something?

One could get a rough size estimate of Alpha based upon the size of an Eagle on the launch pad, and figure out how big the launch pad is in relation to other buildings. I suspect that the miniature for Main Mission Tower may have been scaled thusly, but then again, maybe they just built what looked cool and got the idea across.

Regardless of the number of floors in the building, one thing is obvious about Main Mission's location: the row of windows along the wall of both MM & the Commander's office face outward, which puts the observation balcony along the edge of the circular part of the top of the tower... in other words, the observation balcony windows look out over the circulr rooftop of the tower.

The problem with that? The large model of Moonbase Alpha doesn't have those observation balcony windows. On the other hand, the larger miniature of Main Mission Tower (the two links I provided) doesn't have windows that match the Main Mission set.

My take on all of this? "Oh, well." In my mind's eye, I can make the correction, but if I were to make my own model, I'd try reconcile the sets & extreior models.
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Old 17-08-2006, 01:57 AM   #16
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CR
Oh...This Is a great pointless entertaining subject...
I think in producing the series the afterthough of A cast of fans
Really digesting the sets eagles and actors really was never imagined
Nor the Intenet.. .

In 1975 When I saw Space1999 for the first time I didnt even Have A VCR in my house...I think on the second season I had some Magazine articles and by 1980 I was getting Starlog Magazine.

Now were studying The series with our DVD players capturing Pics
and>>>totally Studying the Dialog so we can recite the episode better than the actors did...

Its all eye candy and Its all speculation on somthing that does not exist
but more than 30 years ago on a Movie set in England...

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