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Old 23-08-2006, 10:03 PM   #1
Eagle
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Default New Source for Aluminium VTOLs / Engine Bells

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Our good friend Jim Small no longer offers them - so we need to find a new supplier. Any ideas?




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Old 25-08-2006, 01:20 AM   #2
Aniskywalker
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Just my luck. I am wanting to Finally start building some Eagles in the next few months, and the #1 maker for Engine Bells on the list pulls the plug.

I hope that somebody will be able to make them.

We need Bells...

James
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Old 25-08-2006, 10:06 AM   #3
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Jim Small wrote me with the email address of the machinist who turned them for him, Mike Reader:

reader@mts.net

Apparently, you can order them directly from him
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Old 25-08-2006, 03:16 PM   #4
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Not wishing to put down Mike's excellent product here, but the length of time for production will be the same.
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Old 25-08-2006, 06:40 PM   #5
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Maybe if we manage to organize a bundle order from this forum things would be different. These mass orders work beautifully, and are one of the main advantages of these forums. What do you think?
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Old 25-08-2006, 07:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akoenig
Maybe if we manage to organize a bundle order from this forum things would be different. These mass orders work beautifully, and are one of the main advantages of these forums. What do you think?
I am in!
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Old 25-08-2006, 07:45 PM   #7
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Sounds like a good proposition.
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Old 25-08-2006, 08:51 PM   #8
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I'll be in for some PE 12" and PE 23" bells...

Will confirm numbers when I have an idea of price...

Chris
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Old 25-08-2006, 11:16 PM   #9
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umm, it may be time I upgraded ny 12 inchers...maybe the 23s too...Looks like I may be in.
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Old 25-08-2006, 11:20 PM   #10
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Would we still be talking that same price? I know it can be done cheaper. I have a possible source. They have been making lots of trek stuff. Just need the 1999 stuff in CAD.
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Old 25-08-2006, 11:44 PM   #11
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You'll be hard pushed to get them done by a commercial company as cheaply as Jim did them but obviously I wouldn't disuade anyone from trying.

Don't forget to quote for the material as "free cutting" aluminium.
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Old 26-08-2006, 12:43 AM   #12
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Peter - how much less are you imagining? And would there be even more of a difference in price if we ordered a greater number at once?
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Old 26-08-2006, 01:08 AM   #13
Mark IX Fan
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I'm in. I need some for my RU23 as well as two 12" and one 23" PE Eagle.....
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Old 26-08-2006, 01:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Don't forget to quote for the material as "free cutting" aluminium.
I'm new here, so I hope this is a joke.
In my machining experence I've never heard of "free cutting" aluminum.
If you put it on the request, your going to hear laughter.
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Old 26-08-2006, 02:12 AM   #15
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Really? (sharp intake of breath)

You need to expand your knowledge base then. If you look at aluminium bar there are two types. One has a dull silver surface. This is regular aluminium which doesn't machine as nicely as free cutting aluminium. Regular aluminium tends to clog up on the tip of a cutting tool even when using a cutting lubricant. Free cutting aluminium has a much more shiney chromy finish to the bar surface. The swarf that comes off it is crisper and it doesn't tend to clog the cutting tool tip. It's late in the night/early morning here but if you bear with me a while, I'll quote you a specific product.
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Old 26-08-2006, 02:27 AM   #16
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Free machining aluminium alloy

When automatically processing components, stringent demands are made for fast cutting, fast feeding and good surfaces. An alloy should then be chosen that contains lead or bismuth, since those elements improve the machining qualities. The alloys known as free machining alloys are EN AW 2007, 2011, 2030, 6012, 6262 and are the most suitable for the automatic processing of components in larger production runs. Free machining alloys provide components of the right quality and at the same time, increase the reliability of production.



HE30 is the standard Aluminium grade.

FC1 is "free cutting"

The new BSS International number for the former is 6082, the latter is 2011 (or 4300/5). I've used both and "free cutting" is a far better alloy. Even with very light cuts, regular aluminium tends to suddenly clog the tool tip which of course causes a gouge on the surface of the thing you're turning and always on a final finishing cut (sod's law).

http://www.smithmetal.com/products/Aluminium.htm

Click on Grades/Alloys in the right hand box. Smith's refer to it as Free Machining Aluminium. There is negligible price difference between it and regular ali.

What laughter was that then?
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Old 26-08-2006, 03:54 AM   #17
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Now that is cool to know. I can tell you this- as an exanple, he had the 10 turn knobs on a trek phaser made up- they are turned and also engraved with numbers, etc. There is also a separate cross shaped top piece- they are selling for 20 bucks, and I know he is more than doubling his money, and that it was a run of 50 or 100. So I am going by that and what he has told me. Like I said, I'll have to get the plans, convert it to cad, etc. But I have to have them so I am going to make a run whatever it takes. I'll of course be glad to sell you guys all my extras, not to make a profit but just pay for the run. Bear in mind it may be a few months. It may be a little cheaper to have done here then the UK or Canada, I don't know, I just hope so. I've already mentioned it to him. My idea is to maybe try the sensor domes first, or the main engine bells, see how that works, then go from there. All I know about the place doing it is it is all automated.
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Old 26-08-2006, 04:15 AM   #18
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Given the apparent demand for engine bells, Id probably go for those first.

As to the CAD stuff, perhaps someone already has those and would be willing to provide them. Maybe nico, with his work? Or someone else who has produced engines in the past?

Of course it doesn't look like Eagle needs any more. Perhaps he was hinting he wanted to go into business with the surplus in his pic.
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Old 26-08-2006, 05:02 AM   #19
atemylunch
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Slightly OT
Quote:
- as an exanple, he had the 10 turn knobs on a trek phaser made up- they are turned and also engraved with numbers, etc.
Why are you having phaser knobs made up?
When they are still available. You just have to know what to look for.
I was selling the dial for $12 US. I bought the original assembly for $2.

I stand corrected about free cutting.
Where I live in the US the more exotic the grade of aluminum the the cost goes up. The most common bar stock is 6061 T6 it is the least costly.
When it comes to using CNC machinery what your machining is all feeds & speeds. So what material you use for bells is your choice. For me I look at what I can get and how much will it cost me.
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Old 26-08-2006, 09:36 AM   #20
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"Free cutting" ali shouldn't be hard to find from any non ferrous metal stockist as it's not considered that exotic. Some of the other specialist aircraft grades might need to be ordered but fc should be in stock. Standard ali is quite soft and marks easily. Standard ali clogs drill bits at the drop of a hat too which leads to oversize holes with a rough surface. That's worth bearing in mind when drilling that deep 1/4" centre line hole that runs through the 44" main bells because it's not something you can fix easily when it happens. Cutting the fine grooves on the outside of the engine bells is another time when tip clogging is likely and again it can ruin the piece. Even with the right feed speeds, cutting fluid, tip geometry and tool tip material, it can happen. However, ultimately, it's a problem for the person doing the job.
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