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Old 15-06-2007, 02:13 PM   #1
saturnapollo
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Default 2001 Moonbus Dimensions Required Please

I decided to trade in my B5 kits (which Iím never going to get round to building) which Iíve collected over the last 10 years back to Comet (taking a huge loss) for an MIM 2001 Moonbus (which I WILL build).

It arrived on Tuesday and for a science fiction subject is a remarkably good casting with no pin holes or bubbles I can see anywhere. Only flaw Iíve discovered is the roof piece seems to sag in the middle so Iíll have to see if heating the piece can solve that.

I have an old Aurora Moonbus and the dimensions seem to scale to that quite well. Iíve read that the MIM version is just the Aurora one scaled up and that may well be the case, but certainly the detail seems to be different and the windows are more rectagular in shape.

It does however seem rather long (relative to the width), but that may be an optical illusion as Iíve not attached the undercarraige yet. When I built the Aurora kit I cut a section out between the nose and the RCS shoulder pads and it looked more as I imagined it, but I discovered a small photo showing that it did indeed have quite a long front section, though the scenes in the film do not suggest that (albeit most shots are foreshortened), so I reinserted the removed section.

Now Iím back to the same quandry. I really donít want to hack this model about and I was wondering if anyone could tell me if Aurora really did get the dimensions right (in which case MIM probably have as well), or if anyone has carried out major surgery on this kit.

Thanks.

When itís finished it should go nicely with the Timeslip Discovery which Iím hoping will arrive soon!

Keith
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Old 15-06-2007, 03:35 PM   #2
DX-SFX
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I think Aurora's kit dimensionally is not bad and I still believe it's pretty much exactly one third the size of the studio model based on the kit bits that are moulded on it. Without going into a long drawn out discussion about it, you might like to look at this thread over at Hobby Talk

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=119101

Also check out Capt Cardboard's (Scott Alexander) website for all things 2001.
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Old 15-06-2007, 05:43 PM   #3
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Chris

Thanks very much indeed for posting the link to a very enthralling board. I see that Scott does not necessarily agree with some members' view that the Aurora kit is reasonably OK dimenson wise.

I have had a look at his in-progress shots of his Moonbus, but I have to say I'm not too sure of the accuracy I'm afraid. I came across this photo which shows that the portion forward of the RCS shoulders is longer than it looks from the angles you see in the film.



I think there was a similar photo from a higher angle at Starship Modeller (that's just going by memory) but none of the 2001 links are working.

When I built the Aurora kit I carried out a very unscientific way to
determine the length. I positioned it such that the angle of the rear hatch matched with a photo from the film and then looked to see where the RCS shoulder bisected the roof and that's when I realised cutting a 10mm section from the body wasn't correct.

I will have to do something similar with the MIM one.

To be honest I think a stubbier version of the Moonbus looks far better, but if that is not the case........

Keith
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Old 15-06-2007, 06:14 PM   #4
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The wire frames that are being generated over photos of the model are pretty infallible. They take into account any focal length of lens used for any particular shot and any resultant change of perspective. I know there's a lot of chat about making the interior fit the exterior in order to determine a scale but the wireframes have to reflect the proportions of the ship or it wouldn't match at every angle. Despite some consideration being given to tilt and shift on the front board of the large format camera used to photograph the Moonbus, I don't think that much if any was used because it always distorts the image. I admire Scott's work but as you probably read, I don't think he's quite captured it correctly yet either. The nice thing about the kit parts stuck on it are that you instantly have a ruler to judge the size of things. I'm not advocating that the Aurora kit is perfect. Just that it shouldn't be dismissed as easily as it is by some. Their Orion is VERY good proportionally in my opinion. If an Orion kit had Aurora's shape but with Airfix's detail, It would be pretty good.

Thanks for the pic BTW. I don't remember seeing that one before.
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Old 15-06-2007, 09:39 PM   #5
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Must admit I don't ever take into account whether or not the interior fits a film model, as we all know this is not high on most film makers list - just so long as it looks good. So I totally agree all that matters is the exterior attributes.

It is comforting to know that I can just build this kit without feeling guilty of not fixing a major problem:-). I also noticed on the board that it was mentioned that the underside detail on the Aurora kit was spot on where the MIM one was wanting. As I know of no photos showing this detail, not sure how anyone can be so sure. I actually prefer the MIM detail.

Quote:
Thanks for the pic BTW. I don't remember seeing that one before.
Pity my website won't allow for bigger photos, but if it is any help I can crop it and post at a larger size. The photo is from Cinefantastique Vol 25 No.3 June 1994 2001 Retrospective.

Keith
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Old 15-06-2007, 10:25 PM   #6
DX-SFX
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Would emailing it be easier? Sending you a PM.
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Old 25-06-2007, 10:21 AM   #7
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Don't know if this is any use to you, here is the model straight off the production line at master models in the late 1960's

www.mastermodels.co.uk/gallery.htm
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Old 25-06-2007, 11:51 AM   #8
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Thanks H. That's one of the photos we used for the wireframe version.
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Old 20-08-2007, 04:43 PM   #9
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My considered opinion and based on research [and following the debate] is that Scott's Moonbus will be the closest yet to the filming minature. I doubt there will be a more accurate kit produced anytime soon. I also think due to lack of hard detail it probably will not be absolutely perfect. But, close enough not to worry out. I also agree, the exterior comes first as meticoulous as Kubrick was, absolutely tying in the interior set to filming miniature came second to dramatic effect he wanted to create, although he gave it a go!

I have the MiM Moonbus, undeniably it is a very well made/produced kit, but there is something not quite right about it. I had Jim Small produce some turned aluminium engine bells for mine but. I now going to wait and use them on my Atomic City kit when it turns-up.

Marty...
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Old 20-08-2007, 04:49 PM   #10
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Since the Discovery sets and the Aries sets don't fit their respective exteriors, I can't understand the obsession of connecting the interior to the exterior in the Moonbus thread at Hobby Talk. Yes, it would be nice to make it fit but let an interior dictate exterior dimensions is not a good idea in my opinion.
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Old 21-08-2007, 01:28 PM   #11
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I agree that exterior comes first, as an impartial observer my take on the Hobby Talk forum was most were including the good Captain were fitting the interior around the exterior. Although, I agree there is a certain amount of [entertaining in my opinion] obsessing about the interior.

Marty...
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Old 15-09-2007, 07:13 PM   #12
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There is a part from the Airfix SRN 1 hovercraft used on the studio model of the Moonbus. It is 73mm long.
The part is 'reproduced' on the Aurora kit (on the feet) and is 21.5mm long.

73mm divided by 21.5 = 3.395. therefore if the whole aurora Moonbus at 9 5/8 (9.7) inches long is in proportion to this ratio, then 3.395 X 9.7 = 32.9 inches long for the studio model.

I have a copy of the original Aurora plans for their moonbus kit, for some reason the production model is made slightly smaller than it is drawn and the measurements given on the plans.
However there is good reason to suppose that the Aurora plans were drawn from information 'at source' e.g. the studio model itself, and/or original studio drawings (neither of which still exist).

By closely studding movie stills and studio pictures, the floor to ceiling height of the moonbus interior appears to be some 6ft 6 inches (78")(1981mm) Scaling up the Aurora Moonbus's floor to ceiling height to this gives a proportional size of some 44 feet long for a 'real' moonbus... (and also makes the aurora bus an odd 1/55 scale).

so IF a real moonbus were some 44 feet long and the studio model about 33 inches long, then the scale of the studio model is 1/16 (3/4"=1')

Therefore a 'half studio scale' model is 16.5 inches long and 1/32 scale.


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Last edited by stargazer; 15-09-2007 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 15-09-2007, 07:34 PM   #13
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... or, the Aurora kit is exactly 1/3rd the size of the studio model based on the SRN1 part.
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Old 15-09-2007, 08:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-SFX View Post
... or, the Aurora kit is exactly 1/3rd the size of the studio model based on the SRN1 part.

Mmmm... I make it 3.395 (not counting the 'X' bits on the end...would you confirm measurments of 73mm and 21.5...
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Old 15-09-2007, 09:09 PM   #15
saturnapollo
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Stargazer

Thanks very much for posting that information.

The Aurora kit measures 245mm in length and the MiM one is 398mm. These dimensions include the rear hatch depth. At 15.75" instead of 16" that makes the MiM one just a bit smaller than 1/32 scale.

However your information does confirm DX's ascertion that both kits' relative dimensions are pretty close to the studio model, something which has long been debated.

Ke
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Old 15-09-2007, 09:22 PM   #16
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Airfix SRN1 part next to Aurora's version.

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Old 15-09-2007, 09:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnapollo View Post
Stargazer

Thanks very much for posting that information.

The Aurora kit measures 245mm in length and the MiM one is 398mm. These dimensions include the rear hatch depth. At 15.75" instead of 16" that makes the MiM one just a bit smaller than 1/32 scale.

However your information does confirm DX's ascertion that both kits' relative dimensions are pretty close to the studio model, something which has long been debated.

Ke
No prob.

The Aurora Moonbus exterior seems very accurate in proportions and overall to that seen in the movie. But oddly the interior is wrong, to my surprise though, the interior can be made 'accurate' mainly by just moving the bulkheads ( Well ok.. and some more work too! )

http://www.planet3earth.co.uk/altered%20moonbus.jpg
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Old 15-09-2007, 09:26 PM   #18
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[quote=DX-SFX;36256]Airfix SRN1 part next to Aurora's version.

QUOTE]


crike that was quick...take any measurments?
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Old 15-09-2007, 09:29 PM   #19
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I've argued long and hard that the Aurora kit shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. I'm not arguing necessarily that it's super accurate, just that it's not as bad as a lot would have you think. I wouldn't like to put a figure for the length on the studio model as I can't really until I start putting drawings together. I was hoping Phil might share his basic wireframe as a starting point but he seems busy off doing other things at the moment.
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Old 15-09-2007, 09:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazer View Post

crike that was quick...take any measurments?
Sorry, I just reposted the picture I posted on the Moonbus thread at Hobbytalk. Can't remember the dimensions but the Aurora SRN1 part is exactly a third of the Airfix part to the millimetre.
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