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Old 17-01-2006, 08:24 PM   #1
tak5haka
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Default Spacedock

Okay, another question from me (I'm full of questions me, infofreako).

The spacedock in Breakaway, is the name "Centuri Spacedock" canon or fanon? Also, is there an existing logo similar to the Alpha Moonbase one?

If the general consensus is that it is called Centuri and there isn't a logo, would you guys mind if I came up with one and posted it here for comments/suggestions?

Thanx.
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Old 17-01-2006, 08:37 PM   #2
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it was known either as 'The Space Dock' or the Interplanetary Space Dock (Dr Russell narrating 'Dragon's Domain')

This latter name is probably the Space Commission name for it since it was used as a staging platform for the Ultra and Meta Probes
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Old 17-01-2006, 08:52 PM   #3
tak5haka
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Okay - how about it's orbital position at L1? Is this confirmed (seems a strange place to put it IMHO) wouldn't L2 be better (or am I getting my orbital mechanics all wrong?).
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Old 17-01-2006, 09:05 PM   #4
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It depends on the Space Dock's purpose. Is it intended to be geo stationary and/or does it mostly service the moon when not hosting the bigger missions? The ISS has been criticised for being in the wrong orbit since it's not parked in an orbit that lends itself to the repair and service of satellites.
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Old 17-01-2006, 09:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tak5haka
Okay - how about it's orbital position at L1? Is this confirmed (seems a strange place to put it IMHO) wouldn't L2 be better (or am I getting my orbital mechanics all wrong?).
Yes - wrong to a certain extent. L1, L2 and L3 are unstable orbital points. "Unstable" meaning that a satellite placed at these locations will have to make altitude and course corrections periodically. L1 and L2, for example, have periods of 23 days. The SOHO (Solar and Heliospheric Observatory Satellite) orbits in L1 presently - because L1 offers an uninterrupted view of the Sun.

L3, lies on the opposite side of the Sun - where science-fiction likes to position Earth's hidden twin - the planet "Nemesis" or "Planet X". L3's orbit is unstable too - about 150 days or so. - and it's hard to imagine the twin planet being able to make course and altitude corrections to maintain L3.

L4 and L5 are stable points for orbits - providing the mass ratio between the Earth and Moon exceeds 24.96 - the Earth and Moon making the two large masses positioned at the verticies of an equilateral triangle. Objects orbiting in the L4 or L5 position are often called "Trojans" - because three large Asteroids (Agamemnon, Achilles and Hector) orbit in the L4 and L5 points in the Sol-Jupiter system defining those orbital positions. The Earth-Moon system's L4 and L5 points have been discovered to contain detectable concentrations of dust - but no Trojan Asteroids - and even a faint ring of dust trailing the Earth as it orbits Sol.

When the Moon was blasted out of Earth's orbit in Breakaway, all of Josef Lagrange's orbital points went to heck in a hand-basket...

Hope not to have bored you too much - orbital mechanics was one of my specialities when I served in the US Air Force...

Jim
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Old 17-01-2006, 11:27 PM   #6
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I love the spacedocks! Here's some info I can offer...

First, the name Centuri came from an article in Starlog about the Hawks, and may also have appeared in the Technical Notebook. (I don't recall if the Tech Book mentioned that name or not.)

Next, the Interplanetary Space Station in "Dragon's Domain" was probably not the Meta Probe Launch Platform (Spacedock) seen in "Breakaway." The "DD" ISS has a launch platform attached to it, whereas the "B" dock does not. (Yes, the platform was added to the model used in "B" when "DD" actually went into production.) Also, the Meta Probe dock is in close lunar orbit, whereas the ISS is located "between the Earth and the Moon" according to Helena Russell's narration and visuals on the screen. I feel that there are at least two spacedocks, but possibly there are more. This also fixes the nitpick about the lunar spacedock in "B" exploding, and then the GTV newscaster saying that a rescue of Alphan personnel couldn't be attempted from the space station because "it, too, was hurled from orbit." My guess is that the "hurled from orbit" station would be the one seen in "DD." (Of course, I know that's a bit of retroactive nit-fixing, since "DD" was made so long after "B," but it works continuity-wise.)

I suppose it (the "DD" ISS) could be at L1, since that's between Earth & Luna, but as tak5haka pointed out & Gun Truck confirmed, such an orbit is unstable. (Of course, that could explain why the station has all those 'thruster clusters' on it: helps for orbital adjustments/station keeping.)

Each of the 'arms' is numbered (those attached to the top hub are 1-4, the bottom hub are 5-8.) The top hub has a large '12' on it, and something that looks like it could be a crest or logo. ( http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...imspdock04.jpg shows the 'logo' mark.) There are also some marks resembling the black triangles on Eagle landing pods; perhaps on the spacedocks, there are RCS thrusters at these locations.

The top hub also has a ring around it, from which protrude four cylindrical things (actually, they are part of the Revell Gemini space capsule model kit). I personally like to think of them as docking areas for work pods that could be used to service the station. (I also think that the exterior model of the Superswift Scout pod looks more like a one-man service pod, rather than the three-man scoutship that appeared in "Bringers of Wonder," but I digress.

The Catacombs has several nice pics of the spacedock model, or at least components of it. (Some of the pics show the 'arms' of the dock attached to the wrong parts of the hubs, but the detail level is better than anything available from screen captures.)
http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...mspacestn.html is the page for the spacedock.

I'm attempting to build a spacedock replica, though I had better access to the inferior Monogram Saturn V kits rather than the accurate Airfix ones, so my model won't quite be "accurate." That's where my assumption about two or more spacedocks comes in handy; mine doesn't have to precisely replicate the actual studio model.
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Old 17-01-2006, 11:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
mine doesn't have to precisely replicate the actual studio model.
Artistic license, makes for a more personalized model. Remember CR, the originals are great, but it's what you like that really makes it
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Old 18-01-2006, 12:34 AM   #8
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So, I could use the name "Centuri Spacedock" and base a logo around the L1 position and it would fit in the Space:1999 universe?

Just trying to come up with some background info on a model I plan to work on ...

Give me a couple of days and I'll post some links to what I mean and let you guys accurise it for me, if that's okay.
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Old 18-01-2006, 05:46 AM   #9
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I consider Centuri to be a class name of that type of spacedock, with individual docks refering to their locations in the solar system: Lunar Spacedock, L-1 Spacedock, and so forth. (No, that's not canon, but I hope others agree with my line of reasoning.)

I guess I should have mentioned something about what I think is a logo in the pic I linked to above... it's the black square-ish mark that appears on the upper hub just before the cylindrical part becomes a cone. (In the case of the photo, the model is tipped on its side, so I should say left hub, rather than upper, for clarification.) Anyway, the mark looks like a black capital L with a black square in the 'open' part of the L, and in that square is a light coloured mark that looks like a numeral one. L-1, see? Other docks located at libration points could have the mark modified to read L-2, L-3 and so on, with the numeral inside the square changing as needed.

As for the big 12 on the hub (not visible in that particular pic, but quite clear in a few of the pics at the Catacombs page I linked to), does that imply that the Lunar Spacedock (er, Meta Probe Launch Platform) was the 12th Centuri-class spacedock? (Of course, that doesn't work for the ISS from "Dragon's Domain," as the 12 was visible on that station, too.)

Sorry if this is more confusing than it needs to be. It ceretainly seems more detailed than anyone involved in Space: 1999's production probably ever intended it to be. (Hey, we all obsess about Eagles, but my side-obsession is the spacedocks. Can you tell? )

Anyway, tak5haka, doon's point about artistic license* would certainly apply to whatever you're planning. As I've told people (not here, but in person) about model building, the key is to have fun. Looking forward to seeing what you have planned.

A final 'by the way' regarding my view of spacedocks... I pointed out that at the end of "Breakaway," the "hurled from orbit" spacedock is different from the Lunar/Meta Probe one that blows up. So, where'd the "hurled" one go? I once pondered an idea for a "spin-off" series (Space: 1999--Centuri) that would present the spacedock's voyage: maybe it got caught in the moon's 'draft' or 'wake' and was being tugged along through the cosmos, some distance behind the moon, never able to catch up with (nor contact) Alpha. A couple of Eagles docked there (which weren't thrown off during the Breakaway) would allow its crew to survey planets, and eventually to try to evac down to a habitable one (in relays, since the Eagles have limited passenger capability). I didn't go much further than that with the idea, though, because it seemed like too much of a stretch, even for Space: 1999. Oh, well. Maybe someday, I'll draw it out as a comic.

*I wonder what the fee is to have my artistic license renewed... can I just mail it in, or do I have to take a 'road test'?
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Old 18-01-2006, 06:10 AM   #10
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By the way, tak5haka, your avatar has me intrigued. Does it tie in with your 'expanded universe' spacedock stuff? Just what is the Osprey, anyway? I'd figured that the Falcon mentioned as the Eagle predecessor in the Tech Manual could be a Swift without the top tanks & with three smaller Eagle-style engines instead of one giant engine. So is the Osprey a predecessor to the Falcon? Or is it a military version alongside the Falcon, like the Hawk is to the Eagle? Or am I projecting my own somewhat goofy ideas onto you, and it's none of the above?
To further illustrate my goofiness, and I'm going waaay non-canon here, even though UFO isn't officially part of Space: 1999 continuity, I feel that the Lunar Mobiles would make a great transition between real-life LEMs and the Falcon; I consider them to be a part of 1999 spacecraft evolution. In an effort to keep the 'bird of prey' idea of spacecraft names going, I chose Kestrel or Osprey (hard for me to narrow down which name I llike better!).

Really sorry for going off-topic with this particular post, everyone. Maybe I could move it to a more appropriate thread, or create a new one dealing with spacecraft evolution if one doesn't already exist.
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Old 18-01-2006, 09:13 AM   #11
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Thanks for all that input guys! The Osprey in my EU is a sort of evolution ship built between the Falcon and the Eagle. Don't want to say any more than that at the moment, as it's still in the planning stage. But it's not a military vessel, sort of a testbed for Eagle tech.

What I was trying to come up with, with regard to the spacedock(s), was a ship badge similar to those dressing the Eagle, but which show that a particular ship is affiliated with the spacedock rather than Alpha. So it is going to be the same shape, but with different text and I was planning on a different symbol (probably reflecting it's L-point position). Does that make sense?

Anyhoo - will post some images at some point for your perusal.
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Old 18-01-2006, 05:04 PM   #12
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tak5haka said: "What I was trying to come up with, with regard to the spacedock(s), was a ship badge similar to those dressing the Eagle, but which show that a particular ship is affiliated with the spacedock rather than Alpha. So it is going to be the same shape, but with different text and I was planning on a different symbol (probably reflecting it's L-point position). Does that make sense?"

Ah, I get it; yes, that makes perfect sense.
Many years ago, I designed a Centuri Spacedock crest that was basically the Alpha crest... I replaced 'Alpha' with 'Centuri' and 'Moonbase' with 'Spacedock,' and made a stylized representation of the spacedock between two dots (Earth & Moon). The pic of the dock looked rather strange, like a silhouette of a playing jack with extra prongs, and I ultimately didn't feel that the design was very original. (Duh, it wasn't! But I was trying to establish a standard shared by all space vehicles and locations in the pre-Breakaway Earth.)
Anyway, I like the idea of ship affiliation with a particular location. I've often thought that Commissioner Simmonds' VIP Eagle (or at least the orange VIP passenger pod) bore the World Space Commission crest rather than that of Alpha Moonbase.
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Old 18-01-2006, 05:11 PM   #13
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I like the idea of an Osprey. I'm modeling my own idea of what the Falcon Mk.II Space Shuttle could have looked like at the moment. It is fun! I'd love to see the Osprey when you begin to realize it in model form.

Jim
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Old 18-01-2006, 06:22 PM   #14
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That square 'L' mark I mentioned on the spacedock model also appears on one of its arms, but without the light coloured '1'. (It doesn't really look like an 'L' so much, after all; the base extends too far.) Still, the pic gives a nice sense of the mark's proportions...
http://www.space1999.net/~catacombs/...imspdock11.jpg
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Old 18-01-2006, 08:41 PM   #15
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I post pics of the Osprey when it's in a state that I'm happy with - it's really embryonic at the moment ...

Were there ever any images of the Falcon?

CR - I'd love to see what you came up with for the Spacedock crest, it sounds exactly like what I am planning to do! I was going to do a stylised one and scale it down to 12" scale for the above project.

By the way do you think the colour blue should be a unifying colour for all Earth ships?
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Old 18-01-2006, 09:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tak5haka
I post pics of the Osprey when it's in a state that I'm happy with - it's really embryonic at the moment ...

Were there ever any images of the Falcon?
None that I've ever seen - but I don't have a large collection of Space:1999 reference material. Could be wrong and there's something out there...

I'm muddling through mine by using familar components from the AMT/ERTL model kit put together in a familiar but different configuration. I'm leaning towards a military version of what I imagine the Falcon Mk.II would look like at this stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tak5haka
By the way do you think the colour blue should be a unifying colour for all Earth ships?
No - I think white (United Nations) serves better. Just my opinion though...

Jim
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Old 18-01-2006, 10:20 PM   #17
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I meant blue for the crest, like the Alpha crest is blue.

White should be the main ship colour, just to tie it in with the Eagles and stuff.
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Old 18-01-2006, 10:23 PM   #18
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Were there ever any images of the Falcon?
No.

There's another assumption going on here that this lineage of ships was a well thought out background story behind the genesis of the Eagle. The reality is that Falcon was just a name given to an imaginary ship to flesh out the text in the technical manual. It shouldn't be taken too seriously on the grounds that it's imagineered by a third party unconnected with the production.
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Old 19-01-2006, 05:54 AM   #19
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DX-SFX is right about the Falcon. However, if you do want to create a ship lineage, I don't see what's stopping you from using it. (Yes, I've seen the new thread you started about lineage, by the way.)
Purists might not accept it, but that's truly a matter of personal choice. I've seen some websites devoted to other sf shows (NOT Star Trek, by the way) that create variations of existing ships that look like they'd fit in with canon ships seen on screen, but with the disclaimer 'non-canon' or 'not official' attached. Don't know if it's that big a deal with you to make that notation.

As for crest colours, early crests may have been multi-coloured (full color, or in printing terminology, 4-color process), such as the Alpha crest seen in "Breakaway" (and on the PE12). Later, simplified design and duochrome color (blue & white) became the standard. (Later still, a different shade of blue arrived.)
The World Space Commission logo on Helena's medical report stationery in "Dragon's Domain" was also blue & white, so it seems that that's a safe assumption to make about crest colours throughout the 'fleet.'

As for my Spacedock crest, tak, I pretty much described it enough that anyone should be able to make one of their own that looks the same. The stylized dock graphic was a silhouette of the spacedock knocked out from the blue background. The two dots representing Earth and Luna were also knockouts... one of those dots was slightly larger than the other. The typeface (font) of the text matched that of the Alpha Moonbase crest. I'm sorry I don't have any pics to post; I have neither a digital camera nor a scanner. I suppose I could mail something to you, if you really wanted it, but I'd have to do a little digging to find the original sketches I made, as I've still got a lot of stuff packed away from a recent move. Maybe I could just draw up some new ones, since the originals weren't 'camera ready art' anyhow. Let me know!

Oh, it seems that most vehicular equipment (and the spacesuits, of course) in the S:99 universe also had the Interspace Research Commission patch/crest on it. That's the thing that looks like a flag with rainbow-coloured stripes and a black, star-filled square in one corner. (The name I called it may not be canon. Just something to bear in mind.

Some other random thoughts to flesh out the whole thing... Would spacedock spacesuits still be red-orange, or might they be white instead? They'd still have yellow helmets & boots, but the white colour would distinguish the suits as being part of spacedock apparel. Of course, anti-radiation suits would be silver.
As long as we're (OK, it's more 'me' than 'we') expanding things, would there be a Mars base, or at least plans for one? (Why would there be a Mars relay satellite, as mentioned by Paul in "Breakaway," unless it was for the Space Farer 9 probe?) Would Alpha Marsbase crests be red instead of blue? Would the spacesuits be blue instead of red-orange? (Blue would really stand out against the rusty brownish soils of Mars. I painted some Airfix Apollo-style astronauts blue with yellow helmets & boots to see how it looked; I rather like the colour combination!)
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Old 19-01-2006, 10:10 AM   #20
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All sounds good to me! I had heard that there was a Marsbase and it was called "Delta" but that may just be caffeine-fuelled ...
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