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Old 22-03-2008, 07:09 PM   #1
thundergod
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Default "Clone Wars" has Anderson influence!

From this months "Total Film" magazine , from an interview with George Lucas . (My capitals).
"Well it's the CLONE WARS, which is always a fun place to be! And in the way that STAR WARS and INDIANA JONES are done in the style of Saturday matinee serials,this is done - and UK viewers will particularly get this - as a homage to GERRY ANDERSON , in a THUNDERBIRDS style . The characters don't exactly look like marionettes. They're not carved out of wood , but they do have a texture to them .They look like painted objects . You know , 99% of people aren't going to understand the ANDERSON connection , but it gives it a point of view to say this is an old-fashioned TV style."
So the new Clone Wars show has a Thunderbirds influence! Interesting indeed!
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Old 22-03-2008, 07:39 PM   #2
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Nice that he both admits it and pays tribute with it. It shall be interesting to see.
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Old 23-03-2008, 05:49 PM   #3
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But will they show clone pilots boarding their craft in exotic ways and have a swimming pool retract to reveal a Star Destroyer launching?

I can see Yoda now uttering famous words.

"Army of the Republic, Go we are!"
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Old 24-03-2008, 12:04 AM   #4
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:52 PM   #5
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Would Yoda say B.A.F ?
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:43 AM   #6
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Clone Wars is kick ass. Looks amazing and has fun characters. It very much reminded me of a simpler age as a child watching all my Anderson faves.

Barry
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:00 AM   #7
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fluence! Interesting indeed!
I'm sorry.. but the whole series looks like "Lego" star wars to me. I don't care what Lucas says.. Some of the characters look more like today's "Bratz" dolls. Barbie with an "attitude".

I totally understood it when Lucas updated all of the Star Wars movies.. 3rd movie was not as good as the first two. The prequels were weak.

-------

I finally broke down the other day and bought the entire STNG TV series. If you wait long enough.. they eventually "Bundle" everything for a lot less money. (I'm waiting for the blueray release of The Prisoner to buy a HD DVD player) I might in the future buy DS9.. DS9 mostly for its entertainment value. I bought STNG for different reasons.

Its a big box with slim green disk cases. $340 USD

From my video store days.. I own the entire ST on VHS.

The 1960's Star Trek really holds up IMHO. I think STNG holds up because most of the 60's creators were involved in STNG. Voyager - Enterprise awk!

In a pinch.. DS9 can be "ok".. Babylon 5 was a lot better.

God only knows how bad the new ST stuff will be.

Anybody see "What the Bleep do we know?" All of that "Magic" science stuff - as well as the smart folks involved in "Bleep" were science advisers on STNG. That kind of stuff counts.

I swear though.. if I see another Star Trek story that preaches that "Rape" is wrong.. I'll bust my TV. They did that BAD STORY TELLING nonsense in just about every new ST incarnation. STNG, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise. In fact I'd argue that one STNG episode was a direct response to the LA riots. "Can't we all just get along??" Horrible.

Star Wars is Fantasy Fiction.. Gerry & Silvia Anderson's UFO and first season Space 1999 is science fiction.

..sigh..

I guess you can't really blame Lucas. He made THX1138. Wonderful science fiction. It did not do very well at the box office. He bought nearly a whole California County after the success of the Star Wars Trilogy.

It would be great if Lucas would return to Science Fiction in a meaningful way.

Well.. that's what I think.. anyway.

GENE
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:09 AM   #8
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Star Wars is Fantasy Fiction.. Gerry & Silvia Anderson's UFO and first season Space 1999 is science fiction.
I was sick for a while.. Spending nearly all my time in bed I bought and watched some of my favorite TV series. I watched the entire UFO series more than once.

I "Think" first episode of UFO has some very neat touches. What comes to mind is the instrument lights reflection in the interceptors pilots face. Ala 2001 Space Odyssey.

Oh.. and Lucas takes a lot of credit for Re-Inventing SF. Look closely at the first season Space 1999 "Computer" wall units. They look a LOT like set pieces in Star Wars. A lot of the folks that worked on UFO/Space were directly involved in SWs..

GENE
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:34 AM   #9
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The hardware in Clone Wars can't be beat but I think the characters have a blocky look to them. The Japanese got it right in some of their manga movies. Sometimes its hard to tell between real and CGI. Vexille, Appleseed, Final Fantasy:The Spirits Within, and Karas come to mind.
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:04 AM   #10
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The Japanese are masters of the art, I didn't like the Clone Wars look of the figures. Mattel Bratz is a good description.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:50 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by shado driver View Post
The hardware in Clone Wars can't be beat but I think the characters have a blocky look to them. The Japanese got it right in some of their manga movies. Sometimes its hard to tell between real and CGI. Vexille, Appleseed, Final Fantasy:The Spirits Within, and Karas come to mind.
Appleseed was interesting... they get a lot of mileage out of "Mech" suits.

One of the best dog fights I've ever seen in was in Marcross. But then they were screwing it up with the dialog.

The Japanese "Drama" can be a bit different..

When you write "hardware".. do you mean the ships? or is it all the Hardware around the characters?

GENE
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Old 09-03-2009, 11:40 AM   #12
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Appleseed was interesting... they get a lot of mileage out of "Mech" suits.

One of the best dog fights I've ever seen in was in Marcross. But then they were screwing it up with the dialog.

The Japanese "Drama" can be a bit different..

When you write "hardware".. do you mean the ships? or is it all the Hardware around the characters?

GENE
I meant the hardware as in ships and robots. Pretty much everything looks good except for the Bratz looking characters.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:26 PM   #13
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I meant the hardware as in ships and robots. Pretty much everything looks good except for the Bratz looking characters.
One could make the same argument about Thunderbirds, though. In fact, my kids are reluctant to watch Thunderbirds because of the 'fake'-looking characters.
On the other hand, they love Clone Wars, and seems to have less of a problem with the charicatures use in that show. Perhaps when I tell them that Lucas was directly influenced by Thunderbirds in that regard, they might be a little more open-minded. It also might help to show them a hardware-heavy Thunderbirds episode or two with tons of models*, just to get them interested.

*OK, I know, everything in Thunderbirds used models.

Oh one more point about Clone Wars... a couple years ago, there was a 'cel-style' animated Clone Wars series that filled in the gap between SW: Ep II and SW: Ep III. The new Clone Wars film & related tv series (the CGI one) seems to fill in the gap between the two seasons of the original Clone Wars cartoon. The point? The characters (indeed everything) in the original cartoon were very stylised. The new CGI Clone Wars kind of looks like a cross between that cartoon and the live-action movies. On the other hand, now that the Thunderbirds connection is known, it seems obvious, and I'm surprised I didn't notice it before.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:29 PM   #14
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Oh, another final point...
Another 'final'? Huh? Anyway...
I've always wished both the cel-style and the CGI Clone Wars had been rendered more 'realistically,' but the creative decision had been made, so I just shrugged and lived with it. Some of the stories are compelling enough that I can look past the style and get to the substance. (My dad, on the other hand, will likely never watch either series because of the overall 'look.')
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:39 PM   #15
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I was sick for a while.. Spending nearly all my time in bed I bought and watched some of my favorite TV series. I watched the entire UFO series more than once.

I "Think" first episode of UFO has some very neat touches. What comes to mind is the instrument lights reflection in the interceptors pilots face. Ala 2001 Space Odyssey.

Oh.. and Lucas takes a lot of credit for Re-Inventing SF. Look closely at the first season Space 1999 "Computer" wall units. They look a LOT like set pieces in Star Wars. A lot of the folks that worked on UFO/Space were directly involved in SWs..

GENE
Actually, it was kind of the other way around. They were well into production of Year 2 of "Space:1999" when Lucas started setting up shop for "Star Wars"...a lot of the technology used for the SW miniatures (with the added benefit of a bigger budget so they could "invent" the computer/motion-control system) was more-or-less "borrowed" from Brian Johnson, which is how he got the job to do "Empire Strikes Back" & the year before "Alien". It's kind of ironic, really. John Dykstra quit "Star Wars" because he felt his talents could be better utilized on "Battlestar Galactica"...a real waste of talent & a good case of "wrong think". So Dykstra went from complete obscurity to superstar & back to almost complete obscurity, while for Johnson, he won the Oscar for "Empire" AND "Alien". The only other Dykstra sfx films I know of are "Lifeforce" (good effects but, quite simple) & I think the 1986 version of "Invaders from Mars" (crappola!). Dykstra, my friend...you made a BAAAAAD career decision there! Johnson (aka "Johncock") went from second string effects assistant on "2001" (not even listed in the credits) then onto "Space:1999" to "Alien" to "Empire". You go limey! Great friggin' work!
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:47 PM   #16
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The hardware in Clone Wars can't be beat but I think the characters have a blocky look to them. The Japanese got it right in some of their manga movies. Sometimes its hard to tell between real and CGI. Vexille, Appleseed, Final Fantasy:The Spirits Within, and Karas come to mind.
Personally, I think "Clone Wars" (the movie) STUNK! I haven't been so disappointed in a "Star Wars" film since "Phantom Menace". I mean, they didn't even use the John Williams theme!! Crikey, even "Superman Returns" used Williams theme! Plus, "CW" was way too juvenile for me. I know it was supposed to be kind of a "pilot" episode for the "CW" series but, come on! ALL "Star Wars" fans are not 14 years old just as all "Star Trek" fans are not 40 & still living in their parents' basement (I'm somewhere in between). "Empire Strikes Back" as well as "Revenge Of the Sith" were both very adult in nature...Why Lucas had to dumb down this last flick are beyond me. Obviously, no matter WHAT the story or content, people are gonna pay to see it if its' "Star Wars"-related. Maybe Lucas felt guilty after "Revenge Of the Sith" got the PG-13.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:29 AM   #17
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George Lucas is a hugely skilled business man today.But it pays to remember that the original filming of "Starwars" nearly wrecked him with stress and difficulties. ILM didn't produce anything worthwhile for ages , shooting in the UK almost killed him and for along time the film was seen almost entirely as a no hoper and a total waste of money by many in the studios. It was a "new style of cinema " in every sense and "new" always meets resistance from the old. But it changed everything in the end.
Lets face it, he has produced some clunkers. Howard the Duck and Willow? But the many diamonds he eventually mines and polishes don't half sparkle.Thing is ,he tries something he believes we might want and he tests the markets and if the people like it we get more.
I've not watched Clone Wars.Watched the trailers and its NOT my thing!!! But kids love it, as regrettably as they loved Jar -Jar Binks. And ,as usual, the money made from merchadising this series is huge and thats always where the bulk of his business profits come from, the behind the scenes production work on films (many not his own) and selling merchandising rights.
Thats where he got his richly deserved rewards for all the slog and toil of SW.
Can't argue with that. He's moving with the times and to some extent creating them with his effects technologies. However, I love the old stuff with great fondness, like Andersons work because they were integral to my childhood and I think he's missing a trick currently. Imagine how much money he would make again if he produced a film "like Starwars" again! He'd get almost three generations of cinema fans.In dark times, nostaglia is a powerful comfort.
Anyway, I'm hoping the TV series will fix that. When I say hoping, I'm talking more sort of praying actually!!! He almost got that right with Indie IV ,apart from three very duff CGI set pieces.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:14 AM   #18
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Howard the duck
ROCKS!
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:25 AM   #19
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Uncle Bill, is that "rocks" as in it should have been stoned to death at the first screening or "ROCKS" as in buried under a great big pile of them. Or perhaps "rocks " as in tied by rope to a very heavy one and thrown into the deepest part of the ocean. Dark Overlords, lazers and exotic martial arts (Quack Fu anyone !!!) do not, a classic ,always make. There are not many films in my life I truely have regretted watching and spending money on but Howard was one of them. So bad that when I saw Jar Jar in Phantom I had immediate flashbacks and premonitions of doom !!! Alas!
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:54 PM   #20
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No, Johnson had a high enough profile due to Space:1999 for Lucas and producer Gary Kurtz to approach him to work on Star Wars, but he was contracted for the second season. That was the end as far as his contributing to SW. I don't see what you mean by borrowed technology, can you give an example?

The motion control technology was a direct descendent of Dykstra's work with the Institute of Urban and Regional Development in Berkeley in 1973, using a computer to control a camera dolly.



Ah, no again. Dykstra actually 'protected' his staff on Star Wars from the 20th Century Fox beaurocracy to the point where he alienated himself from Lucas, and wasn't asked to head up the new facility in San Francisco. Lucas rented out the Van Nuys facility to Universal for BG, but it was understood that the equipment and many of the staff would be moving north at a certain point.

Dykstra stayed on for the beginning of BG (and took an associate producer credit), but this was actually a con so that Universal would tool up the facility for him, replacing the hardware that belonged to Lucasfilm. He then stepped away from Galactica to develop the effects for a version of Altered States which was ultimately cancelled (Dykstra was to be an executive or associate producer on this project as well). Universal was left to reassign the in-house FX department (Universal Hartland) they had put together for the Buck Rogers feature to the Galactica work, which pushed the BR feature and series back to 1979.

Dykstra successfully operated the Van Nuys facility as Apogee for well over a decade, before he and the senior partners made a conscious decision to close shop in the early 90's. He then moved onto freelance work in theme-park attractions, similar to the path Doug Trumbull was blazing, before returning to feature film FX supervision on the Batman and Spider-Man films. I'm pretty sure he won an Oscar for one of them (just checked Wiki; it was Spider-Man 2).

Doesn't seem like a bad career at all!
From what I've read, lo those many years ago, although "Space:1999" used models on wires, they also used a very primitive form of motion control. That being done without the aid of computers. Both "Star Trek" & "Lost In Space" moved the models, not the camera whereas "Space:1999" did the opposite...this was the first such use (I believe) of the "locked-down model/moving camera" technique which Lucas & Dykstra greatly advanced with the "Dykstraflex" motion control set-up & it really hasn't seen much use in TV series or films since that time. Since CGI broke big, unfortunately miniature landscapes & models are being used less & less frequently, especially if it's a major film. That is a shame since it really is an art form of sorts. Almost anyone can do home grown sfx on the PCs with a little practice & skill but, it takes real talent to make a real, 3D object & make it look larger than it is. The last film that had any "real" miniature work in it was "Enemy Mine" which I just watched again this past weekend. Good little film...plus, as an added bonus for "Space:1999" fans, the producers used just about every sound effect, from lasers to explosions to rocket thrust taken & created for "Space:1999". Good way to pass 90 minutes plus, it stayed pretty faithful to the original story written by Barry Longyear.
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