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Old 22-06-2008, 10:14 PM   #1
VTracy
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Default Martian ice--Up front and personal!

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This is one of the latest pics from the Phoenix lander on Mars. Sure looks like ice to me.

I have to admit though, I'm just an amateur follower of NASA and not a scientist of any kind.

It's still amazing to me!

Any comments from enthusiasts, or insights from those in the know are welcome!

Enjoy!!

Last edited by VTracy; 23-06-2008 at 11:51 AM. Reason: fix pic
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Old 22-06-2008, 10:32 PM   #2
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Ah, your image didn't come through.

Scientists have confirmed that they found ice!!

http://spaceflightnow.com/mars/phoenix/080621ice.html
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Old 23-06-2008, 11:56 AM   #3
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Ah, your image didn't come through.

Scientists have confirmed that they found ice!!

http://spaceflightnow.com/mars/phoenix/080621ice.html
Ok, I fixed the pic.

Thanks for the article. Amazing stuff!
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Old 24-06-2008, 10:57 AM   #4
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Its great news but so frustrating that we can't be there just to pick the stuff up ourselves and go "hey its ice" and then put the stuff in an analyser and check for life. We have to sort he distance thing out somehow so we can actually get to these places without dying of old age on the way.

A big hats off to NASA
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Old 24-06-2008, 11:10 AM   #5
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That's a stunning picture VTracy.

Not distance, Tony42, time. Project Orion (from the 40s-50s) needs to be resurrected

Anyone on the forum good with aneutreonic fusion? Let's do some fundraising and we'll whip up a nuclear powered fall-out free pogo stick
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Old 24-06-2008, 01:32 PM   #6
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I actually read in Discover magazine once that we couldn't get to mars without killing each other first....
but this is the first pic I've seen since I heard the probe landed Memorial weekend. Anyone know if there are any others of the Martian surface?
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Old 24-06-2008, 02:32 PM   #7
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Plenty go here
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/main/
for the full phoenix mission.One of my favorite websites, particularly for picture of the day on the home page.
The presence of ice holds some exciting possibilites for the future !
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Old 24-06-2008, 02:47 PM   #8
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Water makes colonisation a step closer. It can provide oxygen for breathing and hydrogen for fuel. It's the same reason they're looking for water ice in the polar craters of the Moon.
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Old 24-06-2008, 03:19 PM   #9
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That's a stunning picture VTracy.

Not distance, Tony42, time. Project Orion (from the 40s-50s) needs to be resurrected

Anyone on the forum good with aneutreonic fusion? Let's do some fundraising and we'll whip up a nuclear powered fall-out free pogo stick
Thanks.

Anyway, after reading the article, I have a question which I hope someone here can answer.

The article says that after a few day this ice evaporated. Now I always had it in my head that we would have to warm up Mars past 32 degrees F to melt the ice. Of course, now I realize since the atmosphere is so thin, the ice can melt at a much lower temp. So the question is, does anybody know this temp? Has anyone ever figured it out?

Any help would be appreciated
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Old 24-06-2008, 03:29 PM   #10
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I'm sure those who know what the mean atmospheric pressure on Mars is have. I know it's very thin compared with Earth.
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Old 24-06-2008, 07:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I'm sure those who know what the mean atmospheric pressure on Mars is have. I know it's very thin compared with Earth.
That's right - we all saw Arnie's eyes popping out of their sockets in Total Recall - definitive proof the atmosphere's very thin
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Old 24-06-2008, 07:34 PM   #12
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This NASA page covers it in possibly more detail than is required...

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast29jun_1m.htm

Phil
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Old 24-06-2008, 10:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
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This NASA page covers it in possibly more detail than is required...

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast29jun_1m.htm

Phil
Whoa, thanks PJ!!! What an interesting article. Unfortunately, it means there isn't an easy answer like "Ice melts at 10 degrees on Mars".

So many different factors. I forgot about salt in the water too, lowering the freezing point.

Also from the article, it says one of the Viking landers recorded midday summer temps of 27C!! That's downright balmy if I have my conversions right!!

Great stuff, thanks!
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Old 25-06-2008, 12:34 AM   #14
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Not sure because of the low atmospheric pressure that the ice didn't actually melt, but sublimate (go from a solid to a gas without going through the liquid stage).

Keith

Last edited by saturnapollo; 25-06-2008 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 25-06-2008, 10:26 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w8cmp View Post
That's right - we all saw Arnie's eyes popping out of their sockets in Total Recall - definitive proof the atmosphere's very thin

well the plot line anyway

And yes, 27c is a warmer day than I like but rather wonderful for a hot summer.... it doesn't get much better
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Old 25-06-2008, 01:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnapollo View Post
Not sure because of the low atmospheric pressure that the ice didn't actually melt, but sublimate (go from a solid to a gas without going through the liquid stage).

Keith
Good point.
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Old 25-06-2008, 10:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Not sure because of the low atmospheric pressure that the ice didn't actually melt, but sublimate (go from a solid to a gas without going through the liquid stage).

Keith
Ah, yes. I said evaporate, which isn't quite correct. Sublimate is the correct word.

I hope you read the article above though. It also suggests many variables which will allow liquid water on Mars.

Though the range for liquid water on Earth is more varied 0-100C. There is still a smaller range on Mars: 0-10C. Also, it is suggested in the article, that added salinity could give liquid water a greater range on Mars!
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Old 26-06-2008, 03:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Also, it is suggested in the article, that added salinity could give liquid water a greater range on Mars!
Vodka works quite well for this too
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Old 26-06-2008, 04:26 AM   #19
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80.6 degress sounds good to me. Exposing more of that ice would be interesting to see.
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Old 26-06-2008, 11:21 AM   #20
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Another interesting discovery about Mars. I'm sure you'll all agree that would make a pretty big hole!
http://space.newscientist.com/articl...r-on-mars.html
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