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Old 24-08-2008, 10:16 PM   #1
eurosector
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Default U.S.-Russia tension threatens NASA

US-Russia chill threatens NASA space program.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080824...aceisspolitics
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Old 24-08-2008, 10:43 PM   #2
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I was just waiting for something like this to happen. Could be a very big problem.

Keith
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Old 25-08-2008, 11:17 PM   #3
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Ah yes, nothing like a bad plan becoming obvious. The LOGICAL solution would be to increase funding and get Orion or the Dragon up and running sooner rather than later.
But that would make sense!
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Old 26-08-2008, 08:44 PM   #4
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It is incredibly stupid to rely on ANY outside agency for G-2-S transport. It is even more stupid to retire your main G-2-S vehicle BEFOR an alternative is operational. You can bet the Air Force did not retire the SR-71 before they got the Aurora airborne.

The only solution I can see is that NASA will need to keep the Shuttle operational beyond the arbitrary date they set.

.
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Old 26-08-2008, 11:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Baker View Post
It is incredibly stupid to rely on ANY outside agency for G-2-S transport. It is even more stupid to retire your main G-2-S vehicle BEFOR an alternative is operational. You can bet the Air Force did not retire the SR-71 before they got the Aurora airborne.

The only solution I can see is that NASA will need to keep the Shuttle operational beyond the arbitrary date they set.

.
Couldn't agree more. It is not the kind of decision a rational mind would make...which proves it was a political one.

Sigh.
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Old 27-08-2008, 09:52 AM   #6
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"The National Aeronautics and Space Administration will become dependent on flights to the ISS by Russia's Soyuz spacecraft when it retires the shuttle fleet that has long ferried US astronauts into space in 2010."

yeah 2010- the year we DONT make contact
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Old 27-08-2008, 10:44 PM   #7
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Please oh please hurry up, Virgin Galactic, Space X, XCor, and ER; let private spaceflight make all this political crap a thing of the past!
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Old 28-08-2008, 08:24 AM   #8
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Well, this could potentially suck...A lot.

Do any of you think Government agencies will clamp down on private Space exploration (I'd love to see a few private companies succeed in getting something launched soon) or try to stop them for any reason?

Or am I just being paranoid? Heaven knows, they may start making new laws and taxes to cover these things, anyway...

Dana
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Old 28-08-2008, 08:35 AM   #9
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If the suggestion in our news papers made by various people is correct that the twentieth Century is about to repeat it self with a new WW starting in the Balkans, then all space travel exploration and so forth is off. 1914 all over again.

I have a sneaking suspicion that our political leaders are a mob of dickheads. Fancy risking the disaster of the last century again. Russia copped it twice, you think these guys would learn. But no, here we go again. The internet could shut down fairly rapidly if the old wartime military censorship thing kicks in again, and then there will be rationing of everything, especially fuel, and I imagine it will be nuclear anyway so who cares... and I bought kids into the world (what's left of it) so that wankers like these guys could start silly wars instead of talking things out and getting along.

Ok, jumping the gun, but I bury people every day, the last thing I for one want is to have whole bunches more than is necessary. As a student of that time period before and up to the end of the WWs I just find it incredible.
Hopefully next week it will all have passed.
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Old 28-08-2008, 10:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrkoenig67 View Post
Well, this could potentially suck...A lot.

Do any of you think Government agencies will clamp down on private Space exploration (I'd love to see a few private companies succeed in getting something launched soon) or try to stop them for any reason?

Or am I just being paranoid? Heaven knows, they may start making new laws and taxes to cover these things, anyway...

Dana
YES I do. You'll need some sort of mega-passport, they'll levy tax after tax and probably just decline most people. Who the **** are these people anyway? They're no better than you or I or joe smith down the road. I had to get interviewed two days ago for a British Passport- and I AM a British citizen by BIRTH!!!! ****ing government
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Old 28-08-2008, 03:32 PM   #11
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I'm with Tony on this one. Never bully people with nuclear weapons. It could get very messy. I hate to say it but I feel the Russians have a point. The more the West heat the flames with all this bloody finger pointing the worse its going to get. It just strengthens Putins power base. Nations with low self esteem support leaders who appear to act strong and who then take regretable steps to promote that image. Of all the politically dangerous things going on in the world this one really does make me very very uneasy.
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Old 28-08-2008, 09:27 PM   #12
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Absolutely, and we'd hardly say Russia is the only large power to use military force to secure its position in recent times (not that any positions have been secured either in this case or any other) Its a bit rich for the finger pointers who are in exactly the same situation themselves.

And we are the ones who'll get sucked up into it.

BTW Stu I can't believe you'd need and interview for a passport. Will fill in an application form, provide id and a signed/witnessed Photograph and the post office sends it in and its sorted out. That's just sad mate.
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Old 28-08-2008, 11:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony42 View Post
Absolutely, and we'd hardly say Russia is the only large power to use military force to secure its position in recent times (not that any positions have been secured either in this case or any other) Its a bit rich for the finger pointers who are in exactly the same situation themselves.

And we are the ones who'll get sucked up into it.

BTW Stu I can't believe you'd need and interview for a passport. Will fill in an application form, provide id and a signed/witnessed Photograph and the post office sends it in and its sorted out. That's just sad mate.
No its not,it's New Labours Britain in 2008........
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Old 29-08-2008, 12:02 AM   #14
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Russia's argument is essentially sound. If parking missiles in Cuba on the doorstep of the USA was unacceptable, then the same can be said for the US moving equipment into Georgia. Both were invited by the governments of the respective countries but that was still immaterial.
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Old 29-08-2008, 01:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
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Russia's argument is essentially sound. If parking missiles in Cuba on the doorstep of the USA was unacceptable, then the same can be said for the US moving equipment into Georgia. Both were invited by the governments of the respective countries but that was still immaterial.
Not necessarily.....my understanding is that the U.S. is providing training in infantry tactics and small arms, as well as more modern equipment including body armor. We're not sending WMDs. And the Georgians have every right to defend themselves.

On the other hand, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Soviets secretly deployed nuclear missiles (WMDs) in Cuba under a campaign intended to mislead Western intelligence forces. Mr. Castro was begging the Soviets to push the button but was not pemitted to though his every intent was to annihilate the U.S.

I know quite a bit about and have first hand knowledge about the Bay of Pigs and the Missiles of October 1962, etc.....OK?

Personally, I would never have entered into any treaty with the Ruskies dealing with anything in space.....or anything else for that matter! The iron curtain may have fallen, but in their heart of hearts, they're still Communist FYI!
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Old 29-08-2008, 06:58 AM   #16
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Regardless of what actually HAS happened, if you are dealing with an old super power that was pretty paranoid in the past ,who now has an ex secret service director ( who specialised in Foriegn Intelligence) as prime minister who controls the goverment like a dictator with a great number of his old KGB friends, then you are going to have to accept their overall thinking is going to be slightly skewed towards seeing dangerous plots and threats to their power base whatever you do.
Therefore moving anti nuclear missiles next door to them in Poland, supplying arms and training to a state nextdoor that is known as anti Russian and then steaming bloody great warships into a harbour virtually on their doorstep to give "humanitarian aid" is not going to settle their nerves at all.
All it does is strengthen their political powerbase at home. Russians are notoriously sensitive about the impression they give the world by being the father of communism. China is managing to rapidly change (see Olympics) world opinion, but Russia is still well behind although it is changing slowly and they are still often reffered to as the failed super power of the 20th Century.
If some one or some nation feels victimised then they will look continually for threat. If the cold war is ended Nato does not need all these new members to counter act the "communist" menace. It does not need people pointing fingers and calling them "Ruskies or Commies". Leave them the **** alone.
This feels exactly to me like a sleep walk into a confrontation that does not need to happen. Cold as it may seem I'd rather see a few thousand people die in a civil war in an East European country than be dragged into World War III with a few billion . Unexpected events have very uncertain outcomes.
But then some people may favour a nuclear winter to counter act all this global warming.
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Old 29-08-2008, 08:35 AM   #17
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C'mon boys, you're a bit grown up for this... war is (and always has been) a tool, as a threat or for real. It's not about Putin being offended or feeling a commie at heart (which is not the case). Wars are ALWAYS about and around the same.
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Old 29-08-2008, 09:00 AM   #18
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As long as Mitchell Gant makes it out in one piece...
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Old 29-08-2008, 09:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
I know quite a bit about and have first hand knowledge about the Bay of Pigs and the Missiles of October 1962, etc.....OK?
Well that told me with all the usual grace and charm.

The only problem with that overall assertion is that there was quite rightly a universal condemnation from the western allies of Russia's actions during the Cuban Missile Crisis whereas there are many sympathisers with Russia on this occasion. Assuming that the politicians have more wisdom in world affairs than yourself, one can't ignore that. Russia doesn't want a US friendly and military equipped state on it's border. Since no military power advertises it's deployment of equipment, Russia doesn't want the potential for US weapons technology slipped in through the back door and that is what they're paranoid about. It is fundamentally, the same principle.
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Old 29-08-2008, 10:04 AM   #20
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Where's CaptainHyper? He's usually well into these kinds of debates...
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